Coronavirus and the impact on football

[scientificred]

I remember studying the 'Philosophy of Natural Science' a long time ago.
It taught me that it is almost impossible to prove something hence why there are so few 'Laws of Science' and so many 'hypotheses'.

[Nineteenx]

Whatever they attempt i don't think Covid is going anywhere for a very long time

To me it is an intelligent virus that explores the body and affects people differently through attacking their weakest point

The lasting effects and reinfection suffered by some indicates it may well be like glandular fever and always remain in your system, lurking, waiting to resurface when a weakness appears

It could very well resurface in the kids who've had it with little ill affect 10, 15, 20 years down the line

Get used to it people

[scientificred]

Listening to a doctor today re 'long term covid' it seems to prefer lungs initially but if not happy there may try any other bodily organ such as brain, liver, kidneys etc.

[scientificred]

edited post......
The effect of this virus will probably last for years....
This virus needs a world solution so I hope big politicians stop playing 'political football' with it and start talking with and helping each other.

Digging up an old post of mine from 14th March whilst looking through the history of this thread (some interesting posts from those early days)
Any sign of this or it just wishful thinking?
If the UK miraculously managed to give itself the all clear without other nations being in the same boat how could we resume normal functionality?
We are far from being an independent and self-sufficient nation.

[scientificred]

Are Manchester and Liverpool likely to form an unlikely union in a revolt against BJ and his boys?

[Taksin]

You are quite a hysterical person aren't you, CD. I presume you're not like this when there isn't a keyboard in front of you - life would be unbearably difficult for you and those close to you if it were so.

You're literally asking me to prove a NEGATIVE....again....of a claim that YOU made.

Proving a negative is fine. It's commonplace. It's only teenage keyboard atheists who have made a big deal of this concept in recent years but there is no reason to.

We can prove we were not at the scene of the crime
We can prove there are no women sitting on the Supreme Court

Proving that there is no herd immunity in London should be straightforward. Certain criteria would have to be met. Dr Michael Yeadon (and by extension me) could be shown to be wrong. All it would take was for someone to look at the facts, not get all hysterical, and explain what they think. What the other scientific 'proof' you are demanding could also be shared so we can all understand your objections. I know its comfortable just saying things like proof and peer review as if that gets you off the hook, but we are dealing with complexity on a huge scale here and the available evidence needs to be weighed up to arrive at an understanding.

The government is acting as if it has understanding but I think it is lost. The Ferguson model, which has guided policy, was based on the assumption that no one had any pre-existing immunity to the novel virus. That is now widely known to be wrong. But they are not admitting it. And there is another negative to be proved for you - no preexisting immunity. It was proved wrong.

Giving me numbers regarding influenza infections rates and then COVID infections rates proves NOTHING about any possible or potential immunity - and specifically herd immunity - from COVID in the London population, other than to say "These two things (that are NOT related to each other) have happened and therefore I'm arbitrarily drawing a conclusion on one of them (not PROVING it) based on some dubious and tenuous correlation I've made between them"..

I asked you to come up with another explanation and you so far haven't been able to. There is obviously a possible and potential implication for immunity there for any intelligent person to consider. I'd ask you to back up this wild claim but by now I'm really writing for anyone else still interested in this as you don't seem very disciplined.

You make a claim - YOU have to prove it.

I laid out the proof. It's a good argument. If there is a problem with the argument, you haven't explained it.

I wasn't literally comparing Sub-Sarahan Africa COVID infection rates with London's COVID infection rates, but rather trying to make a point about how silly it is to draw simplistic conclusions about an observed set of data, without allowing for the possibility that that set of data could be as a result of a whole host of other far more complex and varied reasons.

Such as which reasons? I asked you for them and haven't seen any attempts to come up with any.

The distinction was drawn against Sub Saharan Africa, by the way, in the very first step of the proof

1) London had the disease worst in March (potentially providing herd immunity). The hospitals were more full with Covid cases in London

Sub Saharan Africa didn't, rendering your comparison false. There is a logical sequence that can be easily followed. It can also be proved wrong by a number of means - none of which you have attempted except with bluster. If, for example, covid deaths rise significantly in London, the theory is proven wrong.

If you think the theory is wrong whether deaths rise or not, you can attempt to show why. That's how logic works.

Substitute "Sub-Saharan Africa" for any other part of the world experiencing low infection rates relative to the rest of the world, mate.
It's not the point of the example.
This isn't hard.

It seems to be hard for you. I've pointed out the reason why London is a candidate for herd immunity - no rise in covid deaths whilst there is a free transmission of another significantly more deadly respiratory virus at the same time. I don't understand why you can't comprehend this simple point.

I did not say any place without widespread covid deaths has herd immunity because I don't believe it. This idea is product of your dodgy reasoning. I've already said that New Zealand has spared itself from covid and does not have herd immunity. It's obvious that my argument doesn't apply to any location with low death rates from covid because the argument is based on the population having already experienced a high death rate.

So, for example, I'd imagine it applies to New York and Sweden, but not to Norway. It's a theory that is easy to test.

So in conclusion and to re-cap : -

No actual evidence or hard data backing up the claim that London has actually achieved any herd immunity

Apart from the hard data on current covid deaths and influenza deaths in London available for all on the NHS England website, as well as the extensive data about deaths from Covid that peaked in March. So not a very good conclusion or re-cap at all.

[LFC vs PFC]

I've had 3 close friends catch COVID, and all of them have said that even after a month/2 months they have a real lack of energy and feel completely drained after doing half a day's work, and have to go to bed as soon as they get in.
With this in mind, when do we think we'll see Mane and Thiago again, and even when we do, are they likely to be anywhere near their old selves?

[Steveo]

It is a worry - especially for those who have had full blown symptoms. Seems to take many weeks even months to fully regain energy levels.

[Taksin]

I presume we’ll see them this weekend and that they’ll be fine. I also presume they haven’t had any illness - can anyone confirm or otherwise?

They have tested positive. No one has said they were ill. I realise one famous sports personality talked about his ‘recovery from Covid’ even though he didn’t have a symptom.

I’ve seen quite a few people who’ve had it recently - usually tthey have had little more than a loss of the sense of smell for a few weeks. I also know a few who have so called long Covid, which is just a variation on chronic fatigue syndrome as far as anyone has shown. I know one university aged lad who tested positive soon after freshers week and he felt a bit groggy for a day. It may have been in his imagination.

So unless they have been quite ill it is unlikely they will have chronic fatigue.

[justincredible]

Two colleagues and two people I know have had it. Barely any symptoms at all, tickly throat, a bit of a sore throat and lost sense of smell for a couple of days for all four of them. Getting tested was the worst part, they said.