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Thread: Coronavirus and the impact on football

  1. #2241
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller0863 View Post
    Grade 7 working on “wonky willies” as they call it. Prostate issues basically
    "Please bend your knees. This will feel a bit cold".

  2. #2242
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedNoodle View Post
    Part of medical care is looking after yourself? Above and beyond not smoking, drinking, taking drugs or eating unhealthily (none of which I or my immediate family do), I'm not sure exactly what you mean. What about those like me and certain other family members who cannot 'look after themselves'? Should we just be left to rot and die (as we largely have) because those that are supposed to care for us are 'flawed'? I'm as flawed as anyone, but I care for/help others whenever I can, and have one example of that I will use as an example of both that/what kind of person I am and what goes on in the NHS till the day that I die.

    Doctors are paid ludicrous amounts. I could go into a massive rant about them (especially my local surgery - somewhere I've not replied to for more than two months after being sent a text regarding some treatment that ran out in Dec, due to the issues I've had/will have with them) but I won't.

    They are not miracle workers. They spend a few years at medical school reading/memorising out of date text books, and similarly outdated practices/techniques and think they know it all, something I've had serious issues with inc telling doctors and so called 'leading specialists' what I think/know is going on, only to be told I'm wrong, but then proved right, sometimes much later on and after a lot of unnecessary pain/suffering/issues up to and including potentially as serious as things get.

    In regards to others 'self interests', let me put it this way. You fix computers, and a friend you've not seen or heard from for years says they've got a problem with their computer and that if you come over to fix it they'll pay you. You agree, and after spending a few hours fixing their computer, not only do they only pay you a fiver, they then ask you to leave as they've got something to do, and on top of that you never hear from them again.

    They've done very nicely out of you, whilst you have not only not been fairly reimbursed for your time, you were also treated shabbily afterwards/dispensed with, and as a result not only are you out of pocket but you're left feeling used and angry.

    I could go into more details about the exact kind of thing I'm referring to, but I'd rather not.
    You're not dead Noods, in the natural world perhaps you would be going off your self-description.
    First responders have to look after themselves like many other people who work and care for others. Over 65s are the largest growing demographic globally now so the ageing population has a big impact on capacity. There's not a sustainable health service in the western world.

    I know people's who've had to work in crisis management and other like areas. Not easy going home after a days work, year after year, when your patients and care involves working with say a kid whose been abused, incest cases, a few kettles of boiling water poured over the kid, or their entire family asphixiated in a container.
    Can't say for sure about SB but I'd guess he's seen some horrible shit. Like a car crash where people are screaming in agony been cut out with an anglegrinder then discovering and disclosing their kid is dead. Or dealing with a drunk driving crash. Suicides, calling to homes where a person died a few weeks earlier isn't a pretty sight. Happening more regularly now I'd imagine, though it was routine enough prior to covid.

    Emotionally draining stuff, maybe your expectations of them are set too high.
    The fooking tic tocs and activism annoy the shit out of me tbf

  3. #2243
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    I and a number of other family members are not yet dead, but only through a combination of inner strength, blind luck, and our own vigilance. Other members of our family (never mind thousands of others) have not been so lucky.

    An 'aging population' has been used as an excuse for as long as I can remember. The elderly have always been used as a scapegoat, never mind treated shabbily, something I've personally seen/dealt with. It's only going to get worse, which has/is/will have serious implications not just for myself and my family, but millions of others, especially those like myself who have no relatives looking after/out for them.

    I expect people to do a good job and to treat people how most of them would like to be treated, especially when in a profession where that is/should be 'the prime directive', namely the one where you more than anywhere else are dealing/playing with people's lives, both figuratively and literally.

    If people do not wish to see/deal with certain things they should not take up positions within these institutions. Yes it may not be nice, but they had/have a choice. I have much more sympathy for those who have had to deal with horrific things but never signed up to something where they knew such things were distinct possibilities.

  4. #2244
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedNoodle View Post
    I and a number of other family members are not yet dead, but only through a combination of inner strength, blind luck, and our own vigilance. Other members of our family (never mind thousands of others) have not been so lucky.

    An 'aging population' has been used as an excuse for as long as I can remember. The elderly have always been used as a scapegoat, never mind treated shabbily, something I've personally seen/dealt with. It's only going to get worse, which has/is/will have serious implications not just for myself and my family, but millions of others, especially those like myself who have no relatives looking after/out for them.

    I expect people to do a good job and to treat people how most of them would like to be treated, especially when in a profession where that is/should be 'the prime directive', namely the one where you more than anywhere else are dealing/playing with people's lives, both figuratively and literally.

    If people do not wish to see/deal with certain things they should not take up positions within these institutions. Yes it may not be nice, but they had/have a choice. I have much more sympathy for those who have had to deal with horrific things but never signed up to something where they knew such things were distinct possibilities.
    An ageing population globally is just a fact. People have less kids now, population growth is in part people living longer globally. Puts more stress on pensions if more people live longer and claim pensions for longer. Then you have more globalisation and distances between families that could be there to help their own parents. Of my own grandparents, one of 4 kids lived in this country but 3 hours away, the others had 6 kids and 2 lived nearer to them, one a single farmer the other a married woman. Higher rates of divorce too which puts pressure on too.

    If you'd advise people to bail out of these jobs, how are you going to maintain the service ? Just get the ones who stay to work harder or longer ? How are you gonna entice people to the jobs ?
    People find their jobs tough and make mistakes, if we're only looking for people who never struggle to work and fook off the rest I don't see how you expect it to work out. You seem to have very high expectations of others doing their jobs.
    Maybe your so called mate thought you were taking the piss fixing that computer and trying to rip them off.

    I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence, is there a place one can go so as to avoid dealing with the realities of life ?
    People are born, people die, there's not much choice in that regard. Mans last freedom is his attitude.

  5. #2245
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    An ageing population globally is just a fact. People have less kids now, population growth is in part people living longer globally. Puts more stress on pensions if more people live longer and claim pensions for longer. Then you have more globalisation and distances between families that could be there to help their own parents. Of my own grandparents, one of 4 kids lived in this country but 3 hours away, the others had 6 kids and 2 lived nearer to them, one a single farmer the other a married woman. Higher rates of divorce too which puts pressure on too.

    If you'd advise people to bail out of these jobs, how are you going to maintain the service ? Just get the ones who stay to work harder or longer ? How are you gonna entice people to the jobs ?
    People find their jobs tough and make mistakes, if we're only looking for people who never struggle to work and fook off the rest I don't see how you expect it to work out. You seem to have very high expectations of others doing their jobs.
    Maybe your so called mate thought you were taking the piss fixing that computer and trying to rip them off.

    I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence, is there a place one can go so as to avoid dealing with the realities of life ?
    People are born, people die, there's not much choice in that regard. Mans last freedom is his attitude.
    People might be having less kids where you are, but where I am you can't move for the number of young mum's pushing out three, four, five etc kids. There may be an aging population, but this should be being offset by numerous factors such as people living (or at least being encouraged to live) healthier lives, advances in medical technology, and making sure that the wealthy and those that engage in unhealthy pursuits pay more in regards to the upkeep of medical services. Why should I or those like me pay more as a proportion of 'income' than those such as tax avoiding mega corporations, tax exiles such as that **** Lewis Hamilton, or those that drink, smoke, are clinically obese etc?

    I'm not advising anyone to bail out of those jobs unless they choose to do so off their own back. What I'm saying is that for all their complaining about pay, conditions and things they are/might have to go through, they had/have a choice, and if things were as 'horrific' as they and their 'cheerleaders' make out, not only would there be an absolutely humongous turnover of staff, but most of them would have been put off 'signing up' to begin with.

    I'd entice people by paying those at the top less, but those at the bottom more, but this would only take place upon the qualifications and standards needed (Inc regular testing, Inc in things such as 'bedside manner'). The trouble is that far too many people within the NHS are getting far to much money and perks for doing a substandard job, one which has/is/will cost many people's lives, rather than saving them. I regularly come across those who directly have an influence on people's lives who don't have basic/adequate numeracy and/or literacy skills FFS. That alone has cost lives, and will continue to risk that of others, something I've seen first hand. That should not be allowed to continue.

    In regards to the last sentence I'm talking about people complaining about dealing with things on a regular basis such as deaths, horrific injuries, those who have suffered horrific abuse etc when they've signed up for jobs where these are routine occurrences or very likely to occur, Vs others who either work in an industry where such things generally do not occur (such as in retail) but have had or are having to deal with such things, never mind people such as myself who have seen/been through such things. In my opinion those last two are much more worthy of help/support/sympathy than someone who is paid £33k+ p/a who knew what they were getting into.

    I have the expectations that most others should also have. The reason the world (never mind just the NHS) is going to hell in a hand cart is because not enough people have high enough standards and/or hold underperforming institutions and individuals to account.
    Last edited by RedNoodle; 6th January 2021 at 03:47 AM.

  6. #2246
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    In regards to the above, I meant to say that there should be an increase in the qualifications, standards and testing required of staff who want to, or currently are working in the NHS.

  7. #2247
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedNoodle View Post
    People might be having less kids where you are, but where I am you can't move for the number of young mum's pushing out three, four, five etc kids. There may be an aging population, but this should be being offset by numerous factors such as people living (or at least being encouraged to live) healthier lives, advances in medical technology, and making sure that the wealthy and those that engage in unhealthy pursuits pay more in regards to the upkeep of medical services. Why should I or those like me pay more as a proportion of 'income' than those such as tax avoiding mega corporations, tax exiles such as that **** Lewis Hamilton, or those that drink, smoke, are clinically obese etc?

    I'm not advising anyone to bail out of those jobs unless they choose to do so off their own back. What I'm saying is that for all their complaining about pay, conditions and things they are/might have to go through, they had/have a choice, and if things were as 'horrific' as they and their 'cheerleaders' make out, not only would there be an absolutely humongous turnover of staff, but most of them would have been put off 'signing up' to begin with.

    I'd entice people by paying those at the top less, but those at the bottom more, but this would only take place upon the qualifications and standards needed (Inc regular testing, Inc in things such as 'bedside manner'). The trouble is that far too many people within the NHS are getting far to much money and perks for doing a substandard job, one which has/is/will cost many people's lives, rather than saving them. I regularly come across those who directly have an influence on people's lives who don't have basic/adequate numeracy and/or literacy skills FFS. That alone has cost lives, and will continue to risk that of others, something I've seen first hand. That should not be allowed to continue.

    In regards to the last sentence I'm talking about people complaining about dealing with things on a regular basis such as deaths, horrific injuries, those who have suffered horrific abuse etc when they've signed up for jobs where these are routine occurrences or very likely to occur, Vs others who either work in an industry where such things generally do not occur (such as in retail) but have had or are having to deal with such things, never mind people such as myself who have seen/been through such things. In my opinion those last two are much more worthy of help/support/sympathy than someone who is paid £33k+ p/a who knew what they were getting into.

    I have the expectations that most others should also have. The reason the world (never mind just the NHS) is going to hell in a hand cart is because not enough people have high enough standards and/or hold underperforming institutions and individuals to account.
    We've a higher replacement rate than ye do, the highest in Europe Iirc and certainly in western Europe or eu prior to recent expansions.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/birthsummarytablesenglandandwales/2019
    1.65 for England & Wales.
    Taxes on unhealthy commodities are already set, would you raise them, if so how much higher? Petrol costs are largely duties, same with a pint, fags. Unhealthy foods are already taxed/vat at the highest rate. There's not a strong argument to be made that higher costs lead to people changig their habits. Obesity can be linked to mental health so maybe we should tax the sick for being ill, same with addiction ?
    The top1% pay around half of the taxes, those at the bottom get more out of the state than they put in, top1% are massive net contributors unlike other tax payers.. The unemployeds income comes from the state, so the taxes they pay are for the money the state gives them. Yet they can avail of state services. Lower income earners pay smaller amounts of taxes.
    In terms of the economy and state spending it's a bit of a myth on how the rich can or could bankroll the state entirely. Higher taxes don't automatically generate higher tax takes. Plus inequality is a driver of innovation and advancement as they can invest in new ventures unlike you or I assume. Then you have the reality that their vast wealth doesn't come close to the covering the costs.

    Interesting take, I'd suggest a desire to work in those jobs is a reason they stay and of course it's their area of qualification. But that alone isn't a satisfactory level of performance for you. Many of them probably don't want to leave their colleagues with more slack to pull.

    Again a bit of a myth or notional way of thinking. If you take top earners in the nhs and reduce their salary its not going to give much to those lower earners.
    If you applied a communist style equality of outcome to the nhs where the surgeons and top admins and carers all get paid the same, what would the average income be ?
    Is there some incentive to the reasoning?
    Don't you need that same incentive to convince people to forego a roaring 20s of fun, do well in school and perform more complex tasks requiring a larger knowledge base.

    Don't people in retail share the same reality. If a son or daughter sign up for the army and die, it impacts people who care for them.
    I think you'll find those not earning as much a nurse complain too, didn't they also sign up for their jobs. They could continue their education as there are positions to be filled.
    Same way nurses can be working with health conditions or working after the death of their child. Not sure anyone signed up for covid, he just a reality of living in the world. (I do entertain the idea a few perhaps chose covid for the world - it's plausible imo

    People don't sign up for suffering or death, bar a few who have a link for the former and even fewer for the latter. It's just part of life and the human condition, we do our best to protect kids from suffering first but death and loss is part of life. Offset of course by our attitude, reliefs and joys.

  8. #2248
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedNoodle View Post
    In regards to the above, I meant to say that there should be an increase in the qualifications, standards and testing required of staff who want to, or currently are working in the NHS.
    More qualifications means less time at work so more staff needed, also increases costs. Standards are raised. Testing of staff occurs already, so again more money, more staff needed.
    Then you have to look at the reality of how will further qualifications, higher standards and testing actually occur.

    Poor example/analogy, but would you expect the club to take some of Salahs wages and give them to Adrian. Under the proviso that he attend specialised training and be made aware of higher expectations/standards and that Klopp test him more.
    Your advocacy might not cause the changes you think.

    Or you just sack him and entice a better player by paying our lesser paid players (which he wouldn't be) more.

  9. #2249
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    Arrivals in the UK to need a negative test soon to enter well apparently "considering" what is there to consider? ffs

    FINALLY??????????????????????

    And it's not like any tom dick and harry can be a nurse.... you make out it's easy

    I have a friend training to be a paramedic, granted not the same, but there's so much she has to go through

    there's a reason why we need foreign dr's nurses etc....
    Last edited by Kev0909; 6th January 2021 at 01:12 PM.

  10. #2250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev0909 View Post
    Arrivals in the UK to need a negative test soon to enter well apparently "considering" what is there to consider? ffs

    FINALLY??????????????????????
    This will make essentially no difference to anything. It's another example of how common sense leads us up the garden path.

    The disease and the virus is endemic in this country - that can't be changed now. It is also endemic in all other countries except New Zealand (and possibly a few other islands). So, we know that there are abut 60,000 supposedly newly infected people today in this country. You may as well pluck a large number out of thin air as the tracking system is obviously faulty and dependant on the vagaries of the testing regime. But we know it's everywhere in large numbers. What difference will a few people coming into the country make now? If they are moving in both directions, then the status quo will be maintained in both populations.

    There is also a question that never gets airtime about wether asymptomatic people can pass on the disease. There is no science that proves that they do.

    And then there are the counter questions that no one seems willing to face about the destruction of the economy, the loss of freedom to take your own risks and the rapid acceleration into a police state that comes with this kind of monitoring of the population.

    Again, the imaginary effect is 'controlling the virus', but the science is overwhelming now that the measures do not control it. We can argue about how terrible the disease is and how difficult things are in the NHS but the science shows that the lockdown measures do not change these facts.

    I know we all want to believe that we are making a difference in this way, but maybe we would be more use if we were going about our lives normally, raising taxes to pay for the health system, developing our immune systems and metabolic health by the usual means, including by watching live football matches, and tending to the terrible loneliness of the elderly and their suffering.

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