Coronavirus and the impact on football

[Taksin]

When Jurgen Klopp becomes a mouthpiece for propaganda, you know you’re in deep shit.

The evidence emerging seems to be that the vaccinated spread the disease much faster, with higher viral load than the unvaccinated. If that’s true, then it is impossible to make sense of what Klopp is saying, and quite difficult to make sense of anything else really. .

[eggy81]

When Jurgen Klopp becomes a mouthpiece for propaganda, you know you’re in deep shit.

The evidence emerging seems to be that the vaccinated spread the disease much faster, with higher viral load than the unvaccinated. If that’s true, then it is impossible to make sense of what Klopp is saying, and quite difficult to make sense of anything else really. .

Is that for any scientific reason or simply down to a false sense of protection and therefore lesss caution/ more social contact between vaccinated people. I stopped being cautious or even concerned about this long before I was vaccinated to be honest.

[Steveo]

When Jurgen Klopp becomes a mouthpiece for propaganda, you know you’re in deep shit.

The evidence emerging seems to be that the vaccinated spread the disease much faster, with higher viral load than the unvaccinated. If that’s true, then it is impossible to make sense of what Klopp is saying, and quite difficult to make sense of anything else really. .

Totally agree. Not cool at all mr Klopp

[Taksin]

Is that for any scientific reason or simply down to a false sense of protection and therefore lesss caution/ more social contact between vaccinated people. I stopped being cautious or even concerned about this long before I was vaccinated to be honest.

There are a number of reasons that could contribute to increased infectiousness within vaccinated populations that have nothing to do with mixing / behaviours. Bear in mind that the evidence on lockdowns also shows that there appears to be no improvement in controlling transmission as a result of strict lockdowns. So your/our first assumption on what is happening seems to be false.

The major study on virus transmission amongst the vaccinated is from Israel where they have the highest vaccine uptake earliest, in a relatively small and contained population. Their study included 2.5 million people.

For starters, they found the unvaccinated population was spreading is fastest - this could conceivably be due to behavioural differences but that has not been highlighted in the study. They also found those who had 'natural immunity' were very significantly more protected. We all now know of vaccinated people who have caught it. In Australia, I think its 97% of those hospitalised have been vaccinated.

The real drama is going on at the level of the immune system activity of the vaccine. In order to understand this we have to sit down and listen to world renowned virologists (the sceptical ones) who can explain the minutiae of spike proteins and the immune system - the science of which is hard to grasp. Certainly Klopp knows nothing of this. He is saying what he has been told is the responsible thing to say.

But anyone who is not in the grip of propaganda can look at the science and say those who have tested positive are better protected than the vaccinated and therefore it is clearly insane to pressure them into taking the medicine under the threat of losing their livelihood and status in society. Something else is driving that.

Then there are many warnings, some of them dire, about the likely effects of the vaccines on the host's body and also on driving new, stronger variants. These are serious problems being unexamined by the propadgandists.

In addition, as reported in the link I posted above, we know that 15,000 people in the US alone - the figure is similar for Europe - have died from taking the vaccine and there are 95,000 serious injury events. And by serous they mean life changing, life ruining neurological impairment diseases and the like that absolutely no one would want to see inflicted on their loved ones or squad members. And that is just what's being reported - you can imagine there are all kinds of mechanisms that put pressure on the system to under report these injuries. Plus, there are many fears that the long term effects from this vaccine could be very bad, let's say.

So Klopp is now putting pressure on people to take serious risks with their life. he doesn't know he is doing this. If he wasn't so ill-informed, he would be arguing that this of his players that tested positive have no reason to take the vaccine, for example. He would also know that they aren't being selfish by being sceptical as they pose no added threat to anyone. He would also know that is the vaccines worked we would be well beyond the herd immunity threshold. So it's a sad day when the great man plays his part in this unscientific, soviet style politicisation that wants to centre on its political enemies - the unvaccinated - and shame them into become second class citizens.

[shminkyred]

Im double jabbed....caught the virus and hardly noticed it....except for being knackered....but hey guilt free lounging about...... couple of weeks later i cought a cold....which hit me like a freight train.....the babys developed into bronchilitis which almost killed him......Why was the cold worse....

Weve been isolating so long we dont have the antibodies we would normally hhave. The baby has lived his whole life in lockdown....thats why he got hospitalised with whats normally an ordinary kids Virus...... so many people have died from this virus.......soooo few people have died from the vaccine .....do the marhs...

[teesred]

@Taksin. Where is the evidence that 15k have died from the vaccine in the US?

[fagin]

In N.America at present Hospitals are struggling to keep up with people being admitted on a variety of levels and nearly all are younger and unvaccinnated.Nearly all hospitals in British Columbia are bursting at the seams with unvaccinated people so what is the truth with this.
I got both my jabs but only so i could visit my Mum and Sister in the UK but my flights have been cancelled 2 years in a row yet each of those years i was able to continue to make my trips to Arizona each September with no problems.

I also got my proof of vaccination on my phone as they have decided as of last month to not accept paper documents for proof of vaccinations.

[Steveo]

I am double jabbed and think anyone my age group would be silly not to be, my older brother won’t take the jab ( I have tried to persuade him to but he won’t ) - Surely it has to be up to the individual whether they take a vaccine that has been rushed through and about which we have almost no information regarding its long term effects?


Stigmatising those who aren’t comfortable doing so and accusing them of murder is an absolute disgrace.

The latest push to vaccinate children against medical advice is yet more of a sign that what Taksin is saying has merit.

[fagin]

I am in agreement that it is up to the individual to be vaccinated or not BUT as i have said our hospitals are bursting at the seams with unvaccinated people to the point on TV last night it had patients on interviewing them about their operations that have had to be postponed or cancelled as a result of the unvaccinated jumping the queue.
Personally i think their operations should go ahead as scheduled and the unvaccinated should be made to wait for treatment.It's only fair.
If you don't wish to be vaccinated no-one else should be deprived of their operations while they get treated.

[reddownunder]

There are a number of reasons that could contribute to increased infectiousness within vaccinated populations that have nothing to do with mixing / behaviours. Bear in mind that the evidence on lockdowns also shows that there appears to be no improvement in controlling transmission as a result of strict lockdowns. So your/our first assumption on what is happening seems to be false.

The major study on virus transmission amongst the vaccinated is from Israel where they have the highest vaccine uptake earliest, in a relatively small and contained population. Their study included 2.5 million people.

For starters, they found the unvaccinated population was spreading is fastest - this could conceivably be due to behavioural differences but that has not been highlighted in the study. They also found those who had 'natural immunity' were very significantly more protected. We all now know of vaccinated people who have caught it. In Australia, I think its 97% of those hospitalised have been vaccinated.

The real drama is going on at the level of the immune system activity of the vaccine. In order to understand this we have to sit down and listen to world renowned virologists (the sceptical ones) who can explain the minutiae of spike proteins and the immune system - the science of which is hard to grasp. Certainly Klopp knows nothing of this. He is saying what he has been told is the responsible thing to say.

But anyone who is not in the grip of propaganda can look at the science and say those who have tested positive are better protected than the vaccinated and therefore it is clearly insane to pressure them into taking the medicine under the threat of losing their livelihood and status in society. Something else is driving that.

Then there are many warnings, some of them dire, about the likely effects of the vaccines on the host's body and also on driving new, stronger variants. These are serious problems being unexamined by the propadgandists.

In addition, as reported in the link I posted above, we know that 15,000 people in the US alone - the figure is similar for Europe - have died from taking the vaccine and there are 95,000 serious injury events. And by serous they mean life changing, life ruining neurological impairment diseases and the like that absolutely no one would want to see inflicted on their loved ones or squad members. And that is just what's being reported - you can imagine there are all kinds of mechanisms that put pressure on the system to under report these injuries. Plus, there are many fears that the long term effects from this vaccine could be very bad, let's say.

So Klopp is now putting pressure on people to take serious risks with their life. he doesn't know he is doing this. If he wasn't so ill-informed, he would be arguing that this of his players that tested positive have no reason to take the vaccine, for example. He would also know that they aren't being selfish by being sceptical as they pose no added threat to anyone. He would also know that is the vaccines worked we would be well beyond the herd immunity threshold. So it's a sad day when the great man plays his part in this unscientific, soviet style politicisation that wants to centre on its political enemies - the unvaccinated - and shame them into become second class citizens.

That figure from Australia is completely bogus and based on a slip of the tongue by the Victorian Health Minister.

Those numbers from America are concerning though. Why do you think they are so high when, in Australia for example, there has been less than 1 death per million vaccines? Now admittedly that figure is from the start of September when the pfizer uptake in Australia was lower compared to Astrazeneca. Do you think its to do with the new mRNA technology utilised in the pfizer and moderna etc. vaccines?