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Thread: Summer transfer thread

  1. #1081
    Quote Originally Posted by justme View Post
    Thing is with Shaqiri, When he come on the other day he looked like hes not trained for months.. And hes always injured. Hes not gonna do anything for us. So may as well get what we can for him.
    Yep, it's a shame as I think he'd be a very good player when fully fit, problem is that he's never really fully fit!

  2. #1082
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    24,833
    Quote Originally Posted by toneata View Post
    You really think we'd have bought Alisson and Virgil without selling Coutinho???
    Coutinho and the consequent player purchase is about as "Moneyball" as it gets. I totally understand people erring on the side of monitoring what we do under American owners due to the Vampires, but this is a pretty solid way to run things - acquire undervalued asset on the cheap, milk what you can from it, sell at highest possible price, reinvest money into area that needs upgrading.

    The next step in the evolution of that process is to "create" the assets rather than acquiring them, as that will save even more money and potentially yield more income. One of the best ways of doing that is to bring through English youth talent (as other clubs pay a premium for it) and if the lads aren't up to OUR level we sell to the West Ham/Crystal Palace types for more than they're worth and use the money to source more undervalued talent we can either use or sell on.

    The key of course to making this work is to have the best staff on hand to make the most of it and I would say our Manager, fitness staff, analytics staff and our negotiator for purchases and sales are elite - and credit where due, FSG recruited an elite Manager for precisely this reason - and hopefully will do so again post-Klopp, rather than handing the keys to Stevie "because sentiment" as that would be a HUGE alarm bell.

    Also let's not forget that "under-valued" doesn't simply mean "cheap" - we got Alisson and Van Dijk for well below what they are truly "worth" to a side (City would have done better spending £400m on Alisson and Van Dijk than countless full-backs) and have reaped the benefits.

    We're now in a situation (not to mention Covid-19 of course) where it's difficult to upgrade the first team in this way as the side is so good that it's tricky to upgrade, plus we will want to upgrade without artificially inflating the market for ourselves and pricing ourselves out of future deals. Take Werner - under normal circumstances Werner was probably more worthy of a £90m or so price tag - now had that been the case and had we bought him, the next time we try to buy a striker, we have to spend, say, £130m, as people are wise to our model and there will be a "Liverpool tax" - so rather than put ourselves in a situation where we can't do business within the profile of our model, we'll look elsewhere. We have bought from relegated clubs for example (Shaqiri, Wijnaldum, Robertson) as they'll be in less of a position to negotiate, whereas if we were trying to buy those players from, say, Spurs, they would have cost much more.

    I love what we have achieved with such a low NET spend. It's a massive middle finger to the rest of the Footballing World - particularly Man City, Chelsea and PSG - and I sincerely hope we keep finding creative ways to outwit the enemies - one of which will be producing more Academy talent to either use (saves money on transfers) or sell (generates money for transfers) to maximum effect.

    In time too I hope we sell star players at age 31 or 32 for inflated fees after we have enjoyed their prime on our pitch. A 32-year old Salah to Juventus for £90m only for us to buy these £30m top talents, that type of thing.

    We'll see how it all plays out, but so far we are doing great. Champion's League and Premier League in the bag, chances of slipping out of the Top Four very slim, sense of threat of our stars being purchased by Barcelona or Real Madrid incredibly low. This is what we always wanted and we are doing it on the cheap and laughing in everyone's faces while we're doing it.

    Those damned Scousers again.

  3. #1083
    Don't talk sense man, FSG are bleeding the club dry otherwise we should be buying Mbappe and co!

  4. #1084
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    23,098
    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious View Post
    Coutinho and the consequent player purchase is about as "Moneyball" as it gets. I totally understand people erring on the side of monitoring what we do under American owners due to the Vampires, but this is a pretty solid way to run things - acquire undervalued asset on the cheap, milk what you can from it, sell at highest possible price, reinvest money into area that needs upgrading.
    Taking the red glasses off for one moment - how is this in anyway a good thing? Beyond the obvious and dubious morality - this is precisely how small clubs operate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious View Post
    The next step in the evolution of that process is to "create" the assets rather than acquiring them, as that will save even more money and potentially yield more income. One of the best ways of doing that is to bring through English youth talent (as other clubs pay a premium for it) and if the lads aren't up to OUR level we sell to the West Ham/Crystal Palace types for more than they're worth and use the money to source more undervalued talent we can either use or sell on.

    The key of course to making this work is to have the best staff on hand to make the most of it and I would say our Manager, fitness staff, analytics staff and our negotiator for purchases and sales are elite - and credit where due, FSG recruited an elite Manager for precisely this reason - and hopefully will do so again post-Klopp, rather than handing the keys to Stevie "because sentiment" as that would be a HUGE alarm bell.

    Also let's not forget that "under-valued" doesn't simply mean "cheap" - we got Alisson and Van Dijk for well below what they are truly "worth" to a side (City would have done better spending £400m on Alisson and Van Dijk than countless full-backs) and have reaped the benefits.

    We're now in a situation (not to mention Covid-19 of course) where it's difficult to upgrade the first team in this way as the side is so good that it's tricky to upgrade, plus we will want to upgrade without artificially inflating the market for ourselves and pricing ourselves out of future deals. Take Werner - under normal circumstances Werner was probably more worthy of a £90m or so price tag - now had that been the case and had we bought him, the next time we try to buy a striker, we have to spend, say, £130m, as people are wise to our model and there will be a "Liverpool tax" - so rather than put ourselves in a situation where we can't do business within the profile of our model, we'll look elsewhere. We have bought from relegated clubs for example (Shaqiri, Wijnaldum, Robertson) as they'll be in less of a position to negotiate, whereas if we were trying to buy those players from, say, Spurs, they would have cost much more.

    I love what we have achieved with such a low NET spend. It's a massive middle finger to the rest of the Footballing World - particularly Man City, Chelsea and PSG - and I sincerely hope we keep finding creative ways to outwit the enemies - one of which will be producing more Academy talent to either use (saves money on transfers) or sell (generates money for transfers) to maximum effect.

    In time too I hope we sell star players at age 31 or 32 for inflated fees after we have enjoyed their prime on our pitch. A 32-year old Salah to Juventus for £90m only for us to buy these £30m top talents, that type of thing.

    We'll see how it all plays out, but so far we are doing great. Champion's League and Premier League in the bag, chances of slipping out of the Top Four very slim, sense of threat of our stars being purchased by Barcelona or Real Madrid incredibly low. This is what we always wanted and we are doing it on the cheap and laughing in everyone's faces while we're doing it.

    Those damned Scousers again.


    Let's not forget Sid - there is nothing noble in this. This is born of necessity.

    Wealthy man has less money than very rich man - but - manages sometimes to outwit him.. Is this the best Liverpool FC can hope for?

    And let's also be clear - it isn't by any genuine design either - people rave about our analytics - Genius negotiators etc ...Klopp will do so himself publicly.....BUT we all know where the real miles are made up.. Just because You or Bali believe this is a formula - it really isn't....It is entirely beholden to having pretty much the best manager on the planet. That is simply NOT sustainable OR realistic.. Even then we are looking at limiting the number of competitions we can realistically compete in.

    We won the European Cup last season and the Premier League this season - If we cannot fund the continued development of the squad - then it becomes unfeasible for us to remain at the top and build any kind of dynasty. Some are rightly miffed at the prospect of the money men bankrolling SHitty, United, Chelsea or Newcastle and denting the amazing work that has been achieved. That is not doom and gloom but a really genuine and sensible fear.

    That is the simple cut and dry of it.
    Last edited by Steveo; 22nd July 2020 at 11:40 AM.

  5. #1085
    "Liverpool want £6million for Loris Karius if they sell their unwanted goalkeeper in the upcoming transfer window, according to a report." good luck with that!!

  6. #1086
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Byron Bay Australia
    Posts
    2,765
    We'll be lucky if someone is willing to part with a 6 pack of beer let alone £6 million for prekarius

  7. #1087
    See, told you our owners were skint...

    Gary Neville says Liverpool’s lack of a “super-rich” owner will prevent them from clinching silverware on a consistent basis.

    The Reds spent big on Virgil van Dijk and Alisson Becker but, overall their outlay has remained modest.

    Indeed, Liverpool have partly built their success on cheap signings or academy graduates. Andy Robertson joined from Hull in 2017 for under £10million, while Trent Alexander-Arnold started his Liverpool journey at the age of six.

    Across the north west, however, Manchester City have spent far greater sums under Pep Guardiola. City’s owners, the Abu Dhabi-backed City Football Group, have pumped funds into the club.

    Speaking to Sky Sports (via the Daily Mirror), Neville insisted that Liverpool’s lack of such a structure will not help them in the years to come.

    “No, I’m not [concerned],” Neville said when asked if Liverpool could create a continued spell of success.

    “What would concern me about Liverpool for a long period would be if they were bought out by a super-rich owner, who invested at the level of Manchester City, Manchester United.

    “Their owners just don’t have the money of a Manchester City, or the spending power of a Manchester United or a Chelsea.”

  8. #1088
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    in the past
    Posts
    7,281
    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    Taking the red glasses off for one moment - how is this in anyway a good thing? Beyond the obvious and dubious morality - this is precisely how small clubs operate.





    Let's not forget Sid - there is nothing noble in this. This is born of necessity.

    Wealthy man has less money than very rich man - but - manages sometimes to outwit him.. Is this the best Liverpool FC can hope for?

    And let's also be clear - it isn't by any genuine design either - people rave about our analytics - Genius negotiators etc ...Klopp will do so himself publicly.....BUT we all know where the real miles are made up.. Just because You or Bali believe this is a formula - it really isn't....It is entirely beholden to having pretty much the best manager on the planet. That is simply NOT sustainable OR realistic.. Even then we are looking at limiting the number of competitions we can realistically compete in.

    We won the European Cup last season and the Premier League this season - If we cannot fund the continued development of the squad - then it becomes unfeasible for us to remain at the top and build any kind of dynasty. Some are rightly miffed at the prospect of the money men bankrolling SHitty, United, Chelsea or Newcastle and denting the amazing work that has been achieved. That is not doom and gloom but a really genuine and sensible fear.

    That is the simple cut and dry of it.
    It has a lot to do with Klopp but he is part of the model. Just dismissing the whole operating model is a bit narrow sighted (imo).
    "...and my inch is like a freight train, so I only use it in self defence"

  9. #1089
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ootsville
    Posts
    5,333
    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious View Post
    Coutinho and the consequent player purchase is about as "Moneyball" as it gets. I totally understand people erring on the side of monitoring what we do under American owners due to the Vampires, but this is a pretty solid way to run things - acquire undervalued asset on the cheap, milk what you can from it, sell at highest possible price, reinvest money into area that needs upgrading.

    The next step in the evolution of that process is to "create" the assets rather than acquiring them, as that will save even more money and potentially yield more income. One of the best ways of doing that is to bring through English youth talent (as other clubs pay a premium for it) and if the lads aren't up to OUR level we sell to the West Ham/Crystal Palace types for more than they're worth and use the money to source more undervalued talent we can either use or sell on.

    The key of course to making this work is to have the best staff on hand to make the most of it and I would say our Manager, fitness staff, analytics staff and our negotiator for purchases and sales are elite - and credit where due, FSG recruited an elite Manager for precisely this reason - and hopefully will do so again post-Klopp, rather than handing the keys to Stevie "because sentiment" as that would be a HUGE alarm bell.

    Also let's not forget that "under-valued" doesn't simply mean "cheap" - we got Alisson and Van Dijk for well below what they are truly "worth" to a side (City would have done better spending £400m on Alisson and Van Dijk than countless full-backs) and have reaped the benefits.

    We're now in a situation (not to mention Covid-19 of course) where it's difficult to upgrade the first team in this way as the side is so good that it's tricky to upgrade, plus we will want to upgrade without artificially inflating the market for ourselves and pricing ourselves out of future deals. Take Werner - under normal circumstances Werner was probably more worthy of a £90m or so price tag - now had that been the case and had we bought him, the next time we try to buy a striker, we have to spend, say, £130m, as people are wise to our model and there will be a "Liverpool tax" - so rather than put ourselves in a situation where we can't do business within the profile of our model, we'll look elsewhere. We have bought from relegated clubs for example (Shaqiri, Wijnaldum, Robertson) as they'll be in less of a position to negotiate, whereas if we were trying to buy those players from, say, Spurs, they would have cost much more.

    I love what we have achieved with such a low NET spend. It's a massive middle finger to the rest of the Footballing World - particularly Man City, Chelsea and PSG - and I sincerely hope we keep finding creative ways to outwit the enemies - one of which will be producing more Academy talent to either use (saves money on transfers) or sell (generates money for transfers) to maximum effect.

    In time too I hope we sell star players at age 31 or 32 for inflated fees after we have enjoyed their prime on our pitch. A 32-year old Salah to Juventus for £90m only for us to buy these £30m top talents, that type of thing.

    We'll see how it all plays out, but so far we are doing great. Champion's League and Premier League in the bag, chances of slipping out of the Top Four very slim, sense of threat of our stars being purchased by Barcelona or Real Madrid incredibly low. This is what we always wanted and we are doing it on the cheap and laughing in everyone's faces while we're doing it.

    Those damned Scousers again.

    These would be good points Sid if we we were still happy with just managing top 4 every season. That's not where we are now.

    We're not here because we've bought cheap and turned water into wine, let's not forget we were laughed at when we spent world record money on Alisson and Virgil. There's no doubt without those 2 signings we wouldn't be celebrating tonight.
    At the time the fees paid for Salah and Mané raised eyebrows too. Let's not kid ourselves into believing this is a team of forgotten no-hopers that were turned into superstars.
    We're where we are today because we have the best manager in the world who gets that extra few percent out of a player nobody else could.

    The challenge now isn't top 4 every other season, it's regularly challenging for the title, but that's not happening buying relegated/2nd tier players and waiting 2-3 seasons for them to become world beaters, otherwise we'll just be another Leicester.
    Getting to the top is hard, staying there is even harder. It can't be achieved using a model that took 10 years to get us here.

    I'm certainly not advocating doing a City and spending billions, and we should always be looking for the best emerging talent but it's just not possible to maintain this level we've reached without spending good money on quality, proven players to back up the ones we already have.
    "I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass.........and I'm all out of bubblegum."

  10. #1090
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    23,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo1988 View Post
    See, told you our owners were skint...

    Gary Neville says Liverpool’s lack of a “super-rich” owner will prevent them from clinching silverware on a consistent basis.

    The Reds spent big on Virgil van Dijk and Alisson Becker but, overall their outlay has remained modest.

    Indeed, Liverpool have partly built their success on cheap signings or academy graduates. Andy Robertson joined from Hull in 2017 for under £10million, while Trent Alexander-Arnold started his Liverpool journey at the age of six.

    Across the north west, however, Manchester City have spent far greater sums under Pep Guardiola. City’s owners, the Abu Dhabi-backed City Football Group, have pumped funds into the club.

    Speaking to Sky Sports (via the Daily Mirror), Neville insisted that Liverpool’s lack of such a structure will not help them in the years to come.

    “No, I’m not [concerned],” Neville said when asked if Liverpool could create a continued spell of success.

    “What would concern me about Liverpool for a long period would be if they were bought out by a super-rich owner, who invested at the level of Manchester City, Manchester United.

    “Their owners just don’t have the money of a Manchester City, or the spending power of a Manchester United or a Chelsea.”
    The same twat that claimed his old club would win the league before us.. and secondly he doesn't seem to understand how FFP works. owners cant throw their own money into it..
    This isn't man-city... I think we should sign a couple of players. But we are losing 3 and half million a match day just for fans in the ground.
    Cleaning up the Scots since the 13th century

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