Summer transfer thread

[skyebo]

This ought to be a cautionary tale for a certain Georginio fellla.

Especially if he ends up finding that the manager he thinks he's going to play for has been given the boot and someone new with his own ideas comes in (much like happened in Phil's case) who doesn't see or use him the same way he was so effective for us the the Netherlands.

That Georgino fella is only leaving because he couldn't agree terms over a new contract. The other one couldn't wait to ditch us, even feigning back problem to prevent him from playing. There are ways of leaving a club, one with dignity and his way. That's why I don't want him back. Karma is a great commodity.

[Crimson Dynasty]

That Georgino fella is only leaving because he couldn't agree terms over a new contract. The other one couldn't wait to ditch us, even feigning back problem to prevent him from playing. There are ways of leaving a club, one with dignity and his way. That's why I don't want him back. Karma is a great commodity.

I don't have an issue with the way he left us.

I'm merely pointing out the flaw in the "Grass is greener on the other side" logic and thinking that typically underpins decisions to leave clubs like ours or places like Barca and the likes.

Barcelona fans are never going to love him the way Liverpool fans did, and on top of everything, they're a club in turmoil and in (a very rough) transition period while being deeply in debt.

Which means, the moment things start to go wrong, the knives are going to be out in full force and it will be a free-for-all on scapegoating the new faces. (See : Antoine Griezmann)

And all of this, and they still don't even know if Messi is going to go back for another year.

[Steveo]

This ought to be a cautionary tale for a certain Georginio fellla.

Especially if he ends up finding that the manager he thinks he's going to play for has been given the boot and someone new with his own ideas comes in (much like happened in Phil's case) who doesn't see or use him the same way he was so effective for us the the Netherlands.

I guess so but Gini did give us his best years. Seems the club aren’t offering him what he wants - or perhaps he just wants to sample a life in the sun? Can’t begrudge him. He will find it tough to please that crowd though.

[Nineteenx]

Can you extol the virtue of your midfield arrangement ?

I'm really surprised you've gone for thiago on the right !

Would have thought youd have gone

Alisson
Taa anyonebutgomez VVD Robbo
Fabinho Hendo Thiago
Salah Bobby/Mbop Mane

Having Hendo at 6, Fabinho right to cover Trent, seeing as fab has done rather well at rb/rcb and would be freed to go on search and destroy missions.
Leaving Thiago to develop play and somewhat benefited by having Robbo and Mane on his flank, even VVD behind.

Lol the anyonebutGomez made me laugh, but it's fair and accurate, the way I view the pecking order for our RCB position it's Konate/Matip on an even pegging, both excellent defenders and both the type of defenders we need, then Phillips because Joe was becoming a target at opposition set pieces, and that's always going to happen to whoever plays next to Virgil and teams are much more likely to get something out of targetting Gomez than they ever are targetting Matip, Konate or Phillips

Midfield wise I'm expecting Jurgen and the coaching team to address Fabinho's charging to the player with the ball issues, but, he did well when he just sat in front of the defence at the end of the season, played it simple, didn't go high destroying or venture too far forward trying to get involved in attacks and until his issues are addressed by our coaches and analysis team, that's the best use of him, it's when he starts trying to play as a more conventional midfielder, which for me he isn't and is unlikely to ever be, that the issues really start.

Thiago played RCM is practically all his games and Gini and Fabinho sat an lot more and had a 2 there a lot, if we move our line a lot higher again and look to keep both full backs pushed constantly high there could be issues and I'd expect there to be, because that involves having a very well orchestrated and organised midfield press in which all 3 midfielders do that really well, read the game really well and have the seasoned midfielder knowledge and understanding of who is their man, who is the danger, what to do if one of our pressers allows it to be broken deeper in the opposition half, when to stay with their man and the point at which they can leave their man to go to that player while blocking the line to the player they left, and Fab isn't good at any of those things.

LCM wise, Hendo can play the controller role Gini did with his eyes closed and play it better and provide balls over the top down the line for Mane, balls over the top for Mo, left to right long diagonals and left to right switches to release Trent, and Thiago gives us right to left of all those things played at RCM and a lot more, so that's how our midfield with who we currently have works best for me and having players who can release Mane, Robbo Trent and Mo at will is something we haven't had since Jurgen arrived and our full backs were developed to play as they do, so that's pretty priceless in my view

[Crimson Dynasty]

I guess so but Gini did give us his best years. Seems the club aren’t offering him what he wants - or perhaps he just wants to sample a life in the sun? Can’t begrudge him. He will find it tough to please that crowd though.

If the rumours are true that he felt the club should pay him at the same level as Virgil and Mo, then I can't really blame the club for sticking to their guns and not budging on their offer.

Virgil's importance to the club, has never and will likely never be underlined more than it was this season given how much we suffered not having him in that backline given how we fared in defense.
And despite all the stick he took for being selfish and whatnot, there should be no doubt in anyone's mind how significant Mo's goals were in getting us back into Champions' League places in a season where again, both his front three striking partners were both struggling even more than normal, and he had to bear most of the threat we had upfront.

Having said all that, there was no ever doubting Gini's commitment and effort (despite the odd disappearing act here and there).

I honestly think he just wanted to leave after having won everything he could with us.
Can't blame him for that.

[Nineteenx]

I think Gini just wanted one last big payday, he hoped he would have got it from the club who he was a massive influence on the successes they had when it wasn't forthcoming, he had to look elsewhere

Although, like Mo himself not at their best this season because the team as a whole wasn't at it's best, I think the contributions of our other forwards to firing us into the top four are being drastically underrated, Mane, Bobby and Jota were all scorers and or provided assists (Mane and Bobby) for goals that were vital tp us winning games

Last 10 games, without questions the last surge that got us Champions League football

Wolves o-1 Liverpool Goal Jota 1 Assist Mane
Arsenal 0-3 Liverpool Goals Jota 2 Salah 1 Assists Trent 1 Fabinho 1 Mane 1
Liverpool 2-1 Villa Goals Salah 1 Trent 1 Assists Robbo 1
Leeds 1-1 Liverpool Goal Mane 1 Assist Trent
Newcastle 1-1 Liverpool Goal Salah 1
Liverpool 2-0 Southampton Goals Mane 1 Thiago 1 Assists Salah 1 Bobby 1
Man UTD 2-4 Liverpool Goals Jota 1 Bobby 2 Salah 1 Assists Phillips 1 Trent 2 Jones 1
West Brom 1-2 Liverpool Goals Salah 1 Alisson 1 Assists Mane 1 Trent 1
Burnley 0-3 Liverpool Goals Bobby 1 Phillips 1 Oxlade 1 Assists Robbo 2 Mane 1
Liverpool 2-0 Crystal Palace Goals Mane 2 Assists Bobby 1 Salah 1

Overall stats Goals and assists
Mane Goals 11 Assists 7
Bobby Goals 9 Assists 7
Jota Goals 9 Assists 0
Salah Goals 22 Assists 5 Penalties 6

So contributions to goals from open play
Mane 18
Bobby 16
Salah 21
Jota 9

Not a lot between them at all, if you analyse it further and look at goals and assists that were crucial to our accumulating points, which I haven't done yet, I'm pretty sure Mo won't be top of that, it will be close, but if someone bothers to analyse it, I'm very confident there will be even less between our four forwards than there is on goals and assists from open play

Edit: Just did a quick browse of results and goalscorers on the offal and as expected it looks as though the contributions Mane, Bobby and Jota made involving goals that won us vital points has been drastically underrated by most people, looks like if I could be bothered to work it out, Mane is top, Bobby second and third is tight between Mo and Jota

[Steveo]

Not a lot between them? Might be accidental but think you are again slighting Jota and his contribution.

Jota at 19 games - many as a sub and only 1000 minutes.

Bobby at 36 and nearly 3000 minutes.


And this is just the league. Sadly Bobby played 9 games in the CL without a goal or assist.

48 all comps 3:370 mins - 9 goals?

Jota 30 all comps 1,700 mins - 13 goals.

Jota played in 9 UCL games too but scored 4 with 1 assist.

Bobby had a stinker overall this season - and for much of last season too. It’s become a problem


And assists don’t count for half a goal - in many cases they are incidental - the assist stat is a hugely misleading one.


For balance

[Nineteenx]

So, counting goals and assists and giving each player 3 points for a win and 1 point for a draw they contributed to through either, the LFC forwards Premier League only contributions table is as follows:

Mane 46
Mo 42
Bobby 33
Jota 25

[Nineteenx]

Not a lot between them? Might be accidental but think you are again slighting Jota and his contribution.

How was I slighting Jota by listing the number of Premier League goals he scored exactly?

Also, they were all scoring or assisting in the opening third and the end third and all struggling in the middle third of the season, so nobody covered themselves in glory in 13 or 14 games in the middle of the season in which the whole team played poorly, so for balance, Jota was injured for those 14 games, the whole team played poorly because that was the period that started immediately after Matip was injured and we started having to play CMs at CB and having to try and find a way to play differently

[CCTV]

So, counting goals and assists and giving each player 3 points for a win and 1 point for a draw they contributed to through either, the LFC forwards Premier League only contributions table is as follows:

Mane 46
Mo 42
Bobby 33
Jota 28

How do they/you calculate this stat ?

When I read it, it sounded like a stat that would assign the value of each players goal or assist contributions.

Meaning if Salah assisted Mane for the first goal in a 1-0 win they would each get 3 points.
Whereas if Bobby assisted Jota for a winner, the second goal in a 3-1 win they'd get 3 points each.

But as per you stats Jota has 9 pl goals and managed to win 28 points from each goal.
Meaning that per goal he managed to win 1 more point than 9 winner goals in 9 games could actually win.