Summer transfer thread

[Insidious]

Although to be fair I could see Camavinga's fee being huge already.

[Taksin]

Haha Putin. This could have been written entirely in the US of A. How quaint.

What you are describing is privatisation Taksin. Free market. And that is something all billionaires have fed on.

You clearly know nothing about Roman Abramovich ( not that you are alone ) or his quite incredible story and it shows.


The term Oligarch is heavily politicised and mainly used in a xenophobic context.

You really do behave like an idiot, Steveo

I don’t claim to be an expert but I am careful with my words and know what I’m talking about. My good friend, who died of covid in February, was the head of the soviet studies research centre, a historian of Russian history and military capability. I have had access to information about Russia, including the status of Russian oligarchs in London, that you have not. I know a little about Abramovic, not much, but enough to know how he fits into the current power structure in Russia.

Furthermore your lectures on economics are very overconfident and betray your desire to describe the world in simplistic terms once again. The difference between the economic progress of China and the lack of progress in Russia is not properly accounted for in your concept of ‘privatisation’ being the defining aspect of free markets. Must do better.

I do think the USA is run as an oligarchy, by the way. Just not in a way that draws any reasonable parallels with modern Russia.

Anyway, your desire to score points is just a distraction from your shoddy argumentation on the main subject. My objection to having an oligarch run our club has little to do with the economics of Russia. Your desire for a sugar daddy is now exposed. Good luck to you but you’ll have to work harder if you want to take the moral high ground as well.

[Taksin]

Posted a thomkins time article recently of what to expect under Jurgen as he was joining the club. People like Steveo and others on here seem to find it hard to accept klopp is klopp.
Said it to steveo before just look at his Dortmund methodology, if he wanted a big net spending club he could have his pick of clubs. But hes a post war German, frugal at the best of times.

Klopp looks to develop younger players, gives him a kick. Look at pep at city, sancho gone to Dortmund and Foden probably would have progressed more as a footballer if he did similar.
Host of examples at Chelsea too of not giving youth players their chance. Doubt klopp will let a kdb, sancho etc slip through his hands.

I completely agree, CCTV. you are describing the way things are compared to Steveo’s the way things should be. Klopp is happy and successful here. Things don’t always go to plan. If that causes you to want to tear apart the whole project, please stay well away because things haven’t looked this good for thirty years.

[eggy81]

In the Russian context the term oligarch refers to the model of wealth and power distribution that followed the break down of the Soviet Union. Rather than free market business development, the rule of law and democracy, you saw mafia type gangsters muscling in and building up influence in relationship to the remnants of the KGB, of which Putin himself was a member. The murder of a number of these oligarchs (including those resident in the UK) is a reflection of their particular relationship with this mafia like structure.

This use of the term has very few parallels at all that can be drawn with FSG.

That’s pretty much how the rich legacy families got rich every where in the world in the good old days no? Just more attention and awareness of it now.

[Steveo]

You really do behave like an idiot, Steveo

I don’t claim to be an expert but I am careful with my words and know what I’m talking about. My good friend, who died of covid in February, was the head of the soviet studies research centre, a historian of Russian history and military capability. I have had access to information about Russia, including the status of Russian oligarchs in London, that you have not. I know a little about Abramovic, not much, but enough to know how he fits into the current power structure in Russia.

Furthermore your lectures on economics are very overconfident and betray your desire to describe the world in simplistic terms once again. The difference between the economic progress of China and the lack of progress in Russia is not properly accounted for in your concept of ‘privatisation’ being the defining aspect of free markets. Must do better.

I do think the USA is run as an oligarchy, by the way. Just not in a way that draws any reasonable parallels with modern Russia.

Anyway, your desire to score points is just a distraction from your shoddy argumentation on the main subject. My objection to having an oligarch run our club has little to do with the economics of Russia. Your desire for a sugar daddy is now exposed. Good luck to you but you’ll have to work harder if you want to take the moral high ground as well.

I behave like someone who knows about that which he is talking Taksin unlike you. You say you are careful with your words - yet you expose the depth of ignorance you hold on Russia.

And you again highlight your ignorance.

Unless your friend was head of the 'Soviet Kitchen' he was likely at the*Conflict Studies Research Centre (CSRC. Which would make him more than overtly politicised for a start and likely ex MOD ( something I have suggested before ) - in fact it would put him on a par with GCHQ for balance. For heavens sake man - why not just say your mate was Wesley K. Clark and be done with it.

Also it's worth deciding on whether you are talking about the Soviet Union or the US sponsored fallout from its demise. The wild East of Russia - that hell hole created by Yeltsin and Clinton. Something which you can learn about from the many independent sources far more accurately than your former friend.

I know about Russia in a much more detailed way dear Taksin. I have lived there - I have family who were caught up in the wild East of the 90’s - so much so we had telephone calls to the UK from Sheremetyevo airport pleading with my uncle to stay in the UK.

I know something about Russia - the real Russia, not bogeyman bullshit as propagandised by the NATO media - and not second or third hand information from someone supporting the MOD - NATO.

You know sweet FA beyond what you have been told - not that this has much of anything to do with Roman Abramovich about whom you clearly know even less.


Maybe choose your words more carefully until you have knowledge.


Who said I want a sugar daddy ? I suggested that I would rather have Roman than Henry - absobloodyexactly. Moral high ground..? Don't make me sick - you think there is any more morality in FSG's way of running Liverpool FC than there is in Roman's with Chelsea? If so please explain it so I can understand the error of my ways.

To me there is at least a modicum of decency in an owner who loves the sport. The owners who simply view it as a business , who don't even know the sport and who try to change the sport - trademark the name of the sodding city in which their latest franchise resides.....all while penny pinching...they are surely the worst of the two evils?

[Taksin]

That’s pretty much how the rich legacy families got rich every where in the world in the good old days no? Just more attention and awareness of it now.

If you mean the aristocracy then not quite, I don’t think so. An aristocracy is different to an oligarchy. If you are talking about the period before the industrial revolution then the economics were wildly different. It’s hard to make meaningful comparisons.

It is a habit of modern leftist thinking, which is the majority of political thinking, to see all wealth as the result of one kind of theft or another. But if you study North Korea, for example, you see that communist poverty is the result of theft by the government. Being able to exchange goods and services is associated with freedom.

There is definitely theft that goes on - notably amongst the banking class in modern democracies. And there is undue influence from the mega wealthy, as with Gates and Soros. But we don’t know the destructive effects of a mafia oligarchy in the west as they do in Russia. Anyway, it’s a big subject, not ideally placed on a summer transfer thread.

[Taksin]

You’ve said nothing meaningful in that last post, Steveo. Just more bluster. I’ve already said it’s irrelevant to this thread. You want a sugar daddy - I think that is stupid and a bit sick.

My issue is not where they get their money from. Your equivocation on the term oligarch is a side issue. If you think Russia is wonderful, good luck to you it makes no odds to my criticism of you.

[Steveo]

Not for you perhaps as it highlights the bias you seem to hold.

I prefer Roman to Henry yes - any day of the week just imagine it...? Would much prefer the club to be run as it was decades ago but realise that is now a pipe dream.

I don't think Russia is wonderful at all - far - far from it - it is incredibly backward and has huge problems most of them not the ones we are told about.

It isn't US backed Saudi though or the UAE and lumping it in with both is ridiculous.

[Taksin]

It isn't US backed Saudi though or the UAE and lumping it in with both is ridiculous.

But I didn't do that, tough, did I. I said they were oligarch run clubs. They are easily identified as such and widely despised for it by fair minded punters. People don't like those clubs because they bought their success. A friend of mine calls them clubs where the players become the harem of the owners. PSG, Chelsea and Man City were mediocre clubs who have risen because their owners wanted to own a plaything and had enough money to make it happen.

We, on the other hand, are generally seen as having earned our success the honest way (if you ignore the conspiracy theorists at Everton). That's a reputation that I think we deserve and that's how I want to keep things. FSG have helped to restore us to the top by good management, not by furnishing their personal fantasies (eg. Shevchenko).

It turns out you have the little boy's fantasy of buying everything he wants. "just imagine it" you ask.. no thanks. And ultimately you have reduced success to money - something that should be seen as contradictory coming from a self described socialist. Although socialists tend to appear to be obsessed with money in my experience. Klopp isn't though, interestingly.

But as an aside, I think the model we are currently operating is superior in the medium to long term, that's one of the reasons I prefer it. What that means is I think we are better run than Chelsea and Man City. Our growth is more organic and that will lead to better decisions being made all around. The problem we will have is when FSG decide to sell. Then we will be at the mercy of either an oligarch or a set of fools. That's not something to look forward to.

As for bias, you can't even have a discussion about how well FSG have done. You are too emotional to talk any sense on the subject.

[skyebo]

I wouldn't have Abramovitch as an owner, he is too trigger happy for me. At least the ones we have give their managers a good run at it. You could argue they didn't give Dalglish a good run, but that was as much about the Suarez t shirts nonsense as it was about on field results.