Summer transfer thread

[reddownunder]

Saul Niguez going to Bayern and Atletico likely to use the 68m to fund a move fir Rodrigo De Paul.
19 will be hopping mad!

Bayern are hopping mad paying that amount for Saul Niguez during a pandemic

[justme]

What annoys me about the owners is they gave Rodgers ​a hell of a lot of money and in the main he bought a load of tripe.
Apart from Jota we havent signed anyone expensive in 3 years since we got Allison And we basically got back the Jota signing in sales of other players.. If they Can't back Klopp with funds who can they?

[Kev0909]

Breaking barcelona signing Joshua King, Theo Walcott, Yannick Bolasie & Muhamed Besic from everton on frees when contracts expire.

Ayew too from swansea.

[Steveo]

You accuse me of saying that Rafa is want doing his job and then you come out with this.

I think Rafa did an amazing job given the constraints of the ownership. Right on cue you come in and agree with me.

I think the reason Klopp is successful now in comparison is because the club structure is finally supporting his excellence.

Here you do actually agree with me but just won’t admit it.

No point conversing with a man who clearly can’t accept when he is wrong: Same man who said Rafa couldn’t do his job one minute and then comes out with this barn storming baloney.

I was defending his record - the fact Klopp is less conservative is just that - a fact.

Just give it up

Your case was debunked - shot down in flames. Take it like a man

[Taksin]

It’s impossible to argue with someone who doesn’t know what he thinks and wants the best of both worlds to maintain his non position.

For the record I think the league is more competitive now. Our record points haul seasons were absolutely astonishing under those circumstances.

And never mind Rafa’s FA cup, Houllier won the treble with an ownership structure that was essentially falling apart. This is a. Magic club - the force of belief and passion allows us to overperform.

The reason we didn’t win the final against Real Madrid was not, in my opinion that we were underprepared. I think they cheated, notably Ramos, and I think we just lacked a little confidence on the day. If Salah remained on the pitch I think we would have won. Ifs and buts.

The question remains - is this club now well run?

Steveo, ask your friends who support other clubs. We’ve all done it. They used to laugh at the way the club was run and how deluded the fans were. They don’t anymore. They actually envy us for the most part.

You are not being objective.

[Steveo]

And you sir are talking nonsense - then refusing to accept what you said - then moving the goal posts and then simply trying obfuscate everything to the point nobody knows what was even being said

You stated this:

“Benitez is an example of 'one of the best' managers unable to do his job because the ownership is more important than the manager in terms of success.”


It’s something I disagree with and something I believe Rafa’s achievements prove to be false.

If we are objective and we agree that Klopp is a better manager - then how on earth did Rafa - with such appalling ownership manage to do so well. 2 x second place and 2 x Champions league finals winning number 5 and an FA Cup in what was a more competitive era? Don’t change the topic Taksin... before you move onto another question - How was that so?

The end... almost

[Steveo]

This entire debate came out of your belief that owners trump managers: it is the other way round for me.

Great managers can achieve even with poor owners but poor managers will struggle no matter how good the owner.

It’s pretty basic stuff - and we shall ultimately have to agree to disagree.

You think the league is more competitive now..? Seriously? Do you mean now or in 2019? And 2020? Because for me there was only City to worry about. Chelsea might well be back in the game again next season but we shall have to wait on that.

[CCTV]

Not sure how you conclude this? Seems beyond a stretch to use an aggregate score for league format. Also Rafa only took the Job in Naples in May 2013... In September 2013 Rafa’s Napoli beat Klopp’s Dortmund in Naples and Klopp’s Dortmund beat Rafa’s Napoli in Dortmund in November 2013. Group stage points gathering and it’s 3 points each. Very creative use of winning over 2 legs

Clearly group stages isn’t 2 leg knockout football, and much more recently Napoli got the better of Klopp’s Liverpool ( actual wins ) over the 4 group games we played them in 2018 and 2019. Still do not know how we escaped the group - when Napoli were level with us on 9 points and both teams had a goal diff of +2. Can only be goals scored?

We win the tournament on sheer force of will. Group stage - mauled in Naples ( how on earth was it only 1:0?) - Battered in Belgrade - undressed in Paris - we were bested by Napoli over the 2 games - we somehow escape the group. Beating Bayern in knockout was cool - almost smash and grab.. Then the real miracle - beating Barca 4:0 at Anfield despite missing a few players... Another Istanbul - Sheer will.

Klopp’s Best Liverpool side - 2019 - V Rafas best Liverpool side over 2 legs....would indeed be a cracking tie to watch - though I know where my money would go.

Concluding what exactly ? Given my take on the 11 v 11.

Just stating the only relevant head to head between the two.
Where if it came down to head to head results Klopp would have won.
In the end Rafas team went into the sid cup on goal difference.

You rarely win a high end top level professional competition without getting a few punches in the face or detractors.

Klopp nearly won 2 pl titles, 2 cl, a el and caraboa cup.
Yet there are people who claim his wins are flukey, people who try to rubbish his actual achievements.

[Steveo]

Yawn...

The reasoning that Klopp got the better of Rafa over 2 legs - when it wasn’t over 2 legs. Your opening gambit. Both games were group stage... 1 win each and 3 points apiece.

Go back and see what we were discussing dude. I was using Rafa ( cited as unable to do his job by a certain someone ) as an example of how a top manager can still do well - despite appalling owners. In fact he did almost as well as Klopp has done.

I am not putting Klopp down at all but we won nothing until we got the cash to splash from Coutinho’s sale.

This isn’t opinion but fact. And you won’t find a bigger fan of Jurgen Klopp than me - they don’t exist! It was me defending him against multiple daft suggestions during our terrible run this winter.

Can see why some people just don’t bother posting. Such a monumental waste of time.

[Taksin]

Great managers can achieve even with poor owners but poor managers will struggle no matter how good the owner.

.

If that was true, then you wouldn’t spend so much time on here convicting the owners of being negligent. The owners provide the stability.

Rafa didn’t have the stability behind him. And I don’t necessarily agree that Klopp is a better manager than Rafa. How would we be able to make that judgement? We could only tell if we decided that they were equally hampered by the owners.

As you yourself have been arguing that his achievements we’re superior to Klopps or equal to Klopps when (as you claim) the ownership was much worse, your argument that Klopp is automatically better doesn’t quite make sense. But that is par for the course in this debate.

Why, if Klopp is a better manager and if Rafa had worse ownership to hamper him are you putting your money on Rafa’s team to beat Klopps team? Can anyone, perhaps not Steveo let’s be serious, explain to me how that adds up?

And that is the point of contention - you are going into circular arguments over and over again, spinning around in your head. Any fact that goes in enters the whirlwind and is met with the hurricane of certainty. Out it comes with another circular proof.

And, by the way, we have always been big spenders. Not the biggest but one of the biggest. Net spend used to be embarrassingly high during the lost years, including Rafa’s time.

In those days, opponents used net spend to taunt us for being so wasteful. These days our own fans use net spend to accuse the owners of not investing.

I know which way round i prefer it.