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Thread: The sad demise of Tot Ten Ham Hotspur

  1. #51
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    Totally agree Crimson. Tempting fate is a fools game and more often than not it ends up with plenty of soggy egg on the face.


    Even forgetting the ‘demise of Manchester United’ and this thread - a few were discussing how brilliant our data analysts were in sourcing players who almost never get injured. And how we had - 3 or 4 players for every position. I remember cringing and hoping it never got traction.

    This was all ruthlessly exposed as total fantasy by the time Joe Gomez was Injured on international duty.

    I know it sounds superstitious but it really isn’t - it is something else entirely... though I cannot put my finger on it.... whatever it is - wisdom seems to suggest it’s best to keep your powder dry.
    Last edited by Steveo; 27th April 2021 at 07:13 PM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    Totally agree Crimson. Tempting fate is a fools game and more often than not it ends up with plenty of soggy egg on the face.

    ......

    I know it sounds superstitious but it really isn’t - it is something else entirely... though I cannot put my finger on it.... whatever it is - wisdom seems to suggest it’s best to keep your powder dry.


    I'm not (normally) a superstitious type of person myself.
    Although you'd imagine or think that being a fan of Liverpool Football Club - particularly if you're old enough to have been one during their (ACTUAL) Golden era and seen them win everything under the sun, and then had to suffer through 30 years of pain and hurt before we got to the mountaintop again - that it might engender some level of respect for the vagaries of....how shall we say,...."fate" and the fickleness of success.

    More than anyone else, you'd expect LFC fans to know better that you never stay on top forever (unless these are young fans we're talking about, or glory-hunters who only became reds in 2005), o know better than to mock others demises (even that of our most hated rivals, especially given that they're not that far removed from their own golden age).

    And yes, you could argue that there's a certain aspect about tempting fate when you do these sorts of things, and while most may not be the superstitious type, I would still ask, "....but why risk it, regardless?"

    The problem here is,... we've already hit bottom (again)...so it's not like we need the proof that things can go tits up on your just when you think you'll be riding the clouds forever.

    I get that mocking the fans of other clubs and particularly hated rivals and even not so "rivals" rivals like the Spuds, is always good for a laugh.
    I get that that.

    I'm just saying.....

    A little perspective and acknowledgment for were we currently are at, might be useful.
    On paper, they still have a better (And deeper) squad than ours - especially if they can replace Kane with some younger promising forwards that can jell nicely with Son (a hard ask. I know).
    And add in a proven tactician (like an Alllegri or some like) and who knows?.....just take a look at Chelsea.
    How long ago were we making Fat Frank jokes and talking about their own seeming state of disrepair?
    And yet today they're playing in the Champions' League semis after effectively having locked up their top 4 spot last weekend, and all while having one of the most promising (and youngest with the biggest upside) squads AND a proven Champions' League finalist manager who's won titles in deferent leagues.


    That's how quickly you can go from riding high to eating dirt (like ourselves or the Spuds). Or vice versa (like Chelsea).

    Even putting aside the whole "fate" and "superstitious" angle or the quick changing of fortunes potential of it all, I just felt the 'Demise of Manchester" thread was a tad classless for a club that ought to be acting like we've been there before. And this one - despite our change in fortunes since then - isn't that much better, IMHO.
    To be precise it's only a portion of me downloaded via satellite.
    This Gynoid's E-brain lacks.........capacity.

  3. #53
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    ....or were we entitled to indulge ourselves a bit after years of other fans laughing at us? Especially the Manchester clubs.
    Losing to Sevilla and Madrid,Gerrard slip, the Palace game, 2009 season etc.
    All football fans are fickle, that's the nature of it and that's why it's fun. It' has its ups and it has its downs.
    You ride out both in different ways.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    Totally agree Crimson. Tempting fate is a fools game and more often than not it ends up with plenty of soggy egg on the face.


    Even forgetting the ‘demise of Manchester United’ and this thread - a few were discussing how brilliant our data analysts were in sourcing players who almost never get injured. And how we had - 3 or 4 players for every position. I remember cringing and hoping it never got traction.

    This was all ruthlessly exposed as total fantasy by the time Joe Gomez was Injured on international duty.

    I know it sounds superstitious but it really isn’t - it is something else entirely... though I cannot put my finger on it.... whatever it is - wisdom seems to suggest it’s best to keep your powder dry.
    The filthy have benefitted this season from having a large squad of mostly fully fit players throughout and not having the pressure from their own fans, let's just see how they get on next season eh, I've watched quite a few of their games, they're really not a good side, they're not a side worthy of second place in the Premier League based on the levels of the sides that have occupied that position of late, they remain very average
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by teesred View Post
    ....or were we entitled to indulge ourselves a bit after years of other fans laughing at us? Especially the Manchester clubs.
    Losing to Sevilla and Madrid,Gerrard slip, the Palace game, 2009 season etc.
    All football fans are fickle, that's the nature of it and that's why it's fun. It' has its ups and it has its downs.
    You ride out both in different ways.
    So the Manchester clubs (and their scummy fans) are our role models now?
    Good to know.

    And also, other clubs' fans were laughing at us during out down years largely because whether we want to admit it or not, ...we were a bit insufferable as a fanbase when we were winning all the time.
    It comes with the territory. I know.

    Where's the justification or joy in mocking the Spuds - a club who really haven't won that much in their history, and who along with the deluded fans' have as their biggest sin the fact that they are largely delusional about their status and greatness as a club and the immenseness of their supposed legacy.

    I think a bigger statement on the distance and breadth of the gulf between us as clubs (despite our current state) came in the Champions' League final we beat them in - a tournament and stage in which they were TRULY tourists, and in which their fans knew they would likely never again in their lifetimes get to - and by us doing so by barely getting out of second gear in that game and winning our 6th title as a club in the most ho-hum fashion possibly imaginable.
    To be precise it's only a portion of me downloaded via satellite.
    This Gynoid's E-brain lacks.........capacity.

  6. #56
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    I never said they were good role models. Their fans will call us Scummy.
    Just making the point it's swings and roundabouts with being a football fan. All fans do it ,it's part of the fun of it all. I don't see it as anything to get so serious about.
    I agree fully about us being insuferable and thats why we get it with both barrels but what fans of any reasonably sized club aren't when they have some success?
    Threads like this are a bit daft I guess but each to their own.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Dynasty View Post
    Not that long ago there was a similar thread about the Scum, and how we should all laugh at their demise or summat.
    They're now sitting second and came closest to challenging or stopping City from rolling into another title this year.
    And they'll be playing weekday footie next season on Tuesday and Wednesday and not Thursday.

    I'm just saying,.,.
    The thing is though, irrespective of the fact they're not in an awful position this season and will be in the Champion's League this year, they (Man United) have had an enormous demise, relatively speaking, irrespective of us.

    It's entirely fair, plausible and possible to discuss this as fans of the game without always wearing our Liverpool hat and stressing about our position.

    United won the League 13 times in 18 seasons. Now they haven't won it since 12/13. The 10-year anniversary looks entirely possible when you look at City and Chelsea right now. Even the 8 seasons without a title would have seen you laughed out of the room if you predicted it - despite finishing second under Mourinho (and probably this season) have they even had a legitimate challenge?

    Equally, look at Europe. They had a spell there where they reached three Champion's League finals in 4 years - they last won Big Ears in 2008. That's 13 years ago come the end of the season.

    Are they showing signs of some recovery? Sure they are. We can acknowledge that and begrudge it. But big picture, have they had a serious demise? They absolutely have - and I genuinely don't see an issue discussing it, other than a mix of the fact we're rivals and some folks are superstitious.

    Look at us going into next season - we'll probably be in the Europa League or could even miss out. If a Spurs/Arsenal/Everton forum had a "demise of Liverpool football club" thread would their supporters be saying "glass houses, shouldn't throw stones?" - I'd like to hope not.

    Besides - it wouldn't take the big picture into account anyway. We face some rebuilding work, for sure. But does anyone look at the squad we have to work with and think the extent of the job at hand over the coming couple of seasons is way bigger than the one Klopp took on? Really?

  8. #58
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    I'm under no illusions and I fear we could be screwed when Klopp leaves in 3 years (assuming he'll see out his contract). I hope between now and then he can win a couple more trophies and leave a decent squad for the next manager to inherit. Hopefully Bayern will be up for a swap deal in 2024. Nagelsmann has signed a contract until 2026 but managers seem to get bored pretty quickly at Bayern

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by reddownunder View Post
    I'm under no illusions and I fear we could be screwed when Klopp leaves in 3 years (assuming he'll see out his contract). I hope between now and then he can win a couple more trophies and leave a decent squad for the next manager to inherit. Hopefully Bayern will be up for a swap deal in 2024. Nagelsmann has signed a contract until 2026 but managers seem to get bored pretty quickly at Bayern
    It's less a case of they get bored, than they usually can't handle the drama and the perpetual "too many cooks-ism" from upper management.

    They're usually referred to as "Bayern Hollywood" and definitely not in a complimentary way and in light of all the drama that ensues with all the tinkering/bickering from the suits, that the managers then have to deal with.

    Flick couldn't handle it and had had enough.
    Nagelsmann is young, though, and he might have the stamina to stick it out for some time.
    If he does win some trophies and titles there (not a hard ask considering what a one-horse league that league is), I see him wanting to go ply his trade elsewhere in Europe, and hopefully we'll still be in the frame for consideration.
    To be precise it's only a portion of me downloaded via satellite.
    This Gynoid's E-brain lacks.........capacity.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Dynasty View Post
    If he does win some trophies and titles there (not a hard ask considering what a one-horse league that league is), I see him wanting to go ply his trade elsewhere in Europe, and hopefully we'll still be in the frame for consideration.
    We're in a much more fortunate position than most due to who we are. We will always appeal to someone - we're either successful (and thus desirable) or not very successful and in "sleeping Giant" mode, thus desirable to managers who want to turn things around, which is always good on a CV.

    Klopp joined us when Toure, Skrtel, Lovren and Sakho were our centre-backs, with Moreno our main left-back, Lallana and Allen regulars in our midfield, Mignolet our keeper and Benteke our expensive striker.

    We will be absolutely fine.

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