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Thread: The sad demise of Tot Ten Ham Hotspur

  1. #71
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    I used to teach at a private college for a few years. While I was there they decided to move to new premises which were bigger and shinier and more expensive. In order to fund the move, they had to attract more students and therefore grow the teaching staff. And they had to charge more in fees to fund the move.

    Within a year the college went into administration. It happened overnight - my friend was teaching on the Wednesday, only to find out the college had ceased to exist on the Monday.

    That's an example of the pressures facing a business. The old college worked pretty well. many people were well educated, even though it was a bit run down and lacked some glamour. Now, they teach no students.

    These are simple ideas and, in the competitive world of football, the decisions taken by the owners of clubs can have telling effects on the fortune of the club. No need to get wistful about how lovely the stadiums are, Steveo.

    By the way, I notice you spend some time convicting Stan Kroenke for the misfortunes of Arsenal. I agree with the importance of his influence but then I always did say the owners are the most important determinants of success..

  2. #72
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    Owners are not the most important factors to success - not a chance of it - we don’t on agree on this. I debunked that theory previously as you well know.

    Drop it.

    BUT Taksin they sure as shit can derail any club in a heart beat. If you handicap a club against its rivals even the best manager will struggle. Makes Fergie’s continued success at United after the Glazsrs came in all the more incredible:

  3. #73
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    Please refer me to the place where you debunked the idea and perhaps I will drop it. Otherwise, it’s a free world and an interesting conversation. I’ll keep on enjoying picking it up, especially when you drop your guard and argue my case for me, Steveo.

  4. #74
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    It seems to bore everyone when we have this discussion - as we did at length just a while back.

    You know very well what discussion too about Rafa - Moore’s/Parry and Hicks/Gillett…

    No need to go over old ground when we know we don’t agree.

    Why not stick to the topic at hand - and while you are at it - for the second time.. where do I “seem” to be saying moving is good?

    I am intrigued.

  5. #75
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    Bit of a creep aren’t you Taksin, somewhat reptilian.

    You simply cannot accept when you are wrong and then troll your way back around to the debunked argument.

    It’s quite funny - which private college were you teaching at?

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taksin View Post
    Please refer me to the place where you debunked the idea and perhaps I will drop it. Otherwise, it’s a free world and an interesting conversation. I’ll keep on enjoying picking it up, especially when you drop your guard and argue my case for me, Steveo.
    You're not the only one calling Mr Tripe out Taskin, it's become something of a common theme of late

    I think our owners have made mistakes, I also think they have been very good for the most part and the issues which Steveo lambasts them for have mostly genuine reasons behind them that aren't entirely their fault, and I'm not making excuses for them as he might claim, I think things have just panned out a certain way for reasons not entirely of their making

    After the Champions League win, Jurgen decided to keep on Shaq and Origi rather than sell them while their stock was high, Jurgen actually wanted to keep the squad that won the Champions League together to go for the title, I can't blame FSG or Jurgen for that, it worked

    Last summer Jota and Thiago were good business, perhaps Origi and Shaq weren't moved on then because of Covid, which was nobodies fault, not replacing Lovren was an issue, but we don't know if that was FSG or Jurgen's decision, maybe Jurgen wanted to wait and get the player he wanted like he did with Virgil and to be fair, no-one expected or could have predicted Virgil, Gomez and Matip to be out for the rest of the season before Christmas, leaving it until the end of the January window to get anyone else is wasn't the best, but in the end, is was Phillips and Williams who we already had who played in the crucial wins in the run in and again, Jurgen has been a very long term admirer of Konate, maybe he didn't want to splash the cash on another CB and preferred to wait to get the player he wanted in.

    This summer's more of a test, but again, we don't know Jurgen's thinking, I think we need a Gini replacement, hopefully Neuhas, another forward, possibly 2 as we have to start building our front 3 of the future and it will help us compete in all comps and an attacking mid, and all those most of us have listed need to be moved on, even if their fees will be less than they would have been because of the Covid market

    I look at this summer as a test of FSG and Jurgen, for me he has to move on Keita, Origi, Shaqiri, Grujic, Wilson, Minamino, they're all either not at the required level, not going to improve to the required level or higher or have great ability, but haven't quite worked out and have been here easily long enough to confirm that and spend more time on the treatment table than available and I think we have to cut our losses on all of them, replacing Keita with a top quality attacking midfielder
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    Bit of a creep aren’t you Taksin, somewhat reptilian.

    You simply cannot accept when you are wrong and then troll your way back around to the debunked argument.

    It’s quite funny - which private college were you teaching at?
    Your nasty side is never far away
    Last edited by Taksin; 20th June 2021 at 01:22 AM.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    You're not the only one calling Mr Tripe out Taskin, it's become something of a common theme of late

    I think our owners have made mistakes, I also think they have been very good for the most part and the issues which Steveo lambasts them for have mostly genuine reasons behind them that aren't entirely their fault, and I'm not making excuses for them as he might claim, I think things have just panned out a certain way for reasons not entirely of their making
    Of course they’ve made mistakes. My contention is we couldn’t have become so strong a team without good leadership at all levels of the club. I believe that’s a basic truth that applies to almost any business or organisation - the difference is in football we like to believe the manager is the boss, but that obviously isn’t true. The manager is dependant on upstairs to do his job and, in the end, his job is on the line more than theirs.

    Steveo goes round in so many circles you have to look into his outrage to see what he wants you to take as his position because he often uses the opposite argument in the next breath.

    In this case he says Arsenal haven’t been hampered by the cost of their stadium and to defend this (obscure) belief he starts saying that their downturn in fortune (let’s call it a demise) is the result of their American owner. I’d agree with this, obviously, except they also had other owners when they decided to pursue the stadium plans, so one way or another, Arsenal’s problems start at the level of the owners.

    Part of the assertion he’s been putting together this time seems to be that Kroenke is American and therefore draining the club, just like our American owners. Except most objective observers see quite a difference in the strength of the two clubs. I take it from trying to understand why he ties himself in these knots that it’s important to him to compare their stadium building favourably in comparison to LFC, presumably as it maintains the litany of complaints he can make against FSG. So when it’s pointed out that their stadiums have been holding them back, it has to be untrue.

  9. #79
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    You simply cannot accept the simple truth no matter how much evidence is presented. You then relentlessly circumnavigate back to it in ever more convoluted ways - desperate to bring back to the surface that which has been sunk.

    This discussion was about the absolutely bogus narrative that building a new stadium leads to a demise. It doesn’t work that way and there are multiple examples that prove this.

    With hard evidence presented you claim certain clubs can’t be included - poor Taksin - when I remove those clubs still leaving 3 times more as positive examples and expose the weakness of the Arsenal/Spurs cases you choose to move across and start talking about owners v Managers.

    Now you try and go back to wrestling with the wrong assertion again ( forgive me for daring to say it is wrong even though I believe it is totally wrong ) that owners are more important than managers to success. Again I have provided multiple examples to thwart this bogus claim.

    In a similar fashion to the Melter and his fanciful claims of near superpower abilities with magic foresight and prediction and his crazed Jordan Henderson fixation - you seem totally fixated with a a rigid belief in the fact that black is in fact white .

    Good luck with that Taksin

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post

    This discussion was about the absolutely bogus narrative that building a new stadium leads to a demise. It doesn’t work that way and there are multiple examples that prove this.
    No it wasn't. This is what you wanted it to be about because you were defending your pet theories again and got confused. This was specifically about Arsenal and Spurs, not about how building new stadiums in general is bad.

    fiordearg said;

    "Looks like building big stadia has held back both Spurs and Arsenal
    Incremental increases in capacity have served us and the scum better"

    It's a modest and contained statement. Most people who understand football would agree with it. You took exception it and then started making big generalisations, including bandying around weird ideas as if they were certain truth, presumably after you've debunked everyone else in your own head at some stage - perhaps in the shower or whilst walking the dog.

    I picked you up on one of your statements of fact:

    "The idea of the debt being a handicap is largely fictional"

    This is, of course, very hard to support as a statement if fact. But don't let that worry you. You've debunked everyone else.

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