To be fair to all our forwards, they started the season in title winning form, Klopp played them our of form pissing about with their positions, no two ways about it
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My feeling exactly.Originally Posted by jozza800
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To be fair to all our forwards, they started the season in title winning form, Klopp played them our of form pissing about with their positions, no two ways about it
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
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All 3 way out of sorts, one of them needs to snap out of it sharpish.
I've said a few times now I think Firmino could have peaked. This isn't a bad spell now, we are talking over a year.
The front as a unit needs something different. I know we've got Jota and ges one for the future but maybe Salah,Firmino and Mane have had their time together. 4 and 5 years at LFC now. Thats a long time for a front 3 to stay together.
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I have every faith in them and wish people would consider the following:
They haven't had the opportunity to play in our best 11 for any games let alone a run of games with the midfield 3 of Hendo, Gini and Thiago
The planned evolution of our play and developing it with the high press we were able to play with Virigl and Matip or Joe at CB, which would no doubt have seen greater variation of movement by our forwards and our full backs in opening sides up, including the forwards opening the channels between RB and RCB and LB and LCB for Thiago to thread balls through and play the full backs in and find different runs from the forwards hasn't had any opportunity to take place and even start developing yet, we've played 18 games and haven't once been able to field the midfield 3 of Hendo, Gini and Thiago
We rarely passed through team the last 2 seasons at all, a great many of our goals were through winning second balls, robbing opponents or recycling a cleared ball from a set piece in great areas high up and creating from there and because of injuries we haven't been able to play like that
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
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All good points. The loss of Virgil is being felt big now. The midfield and defence are feeling it.
Personally do feel Firmino is becoming a real issue. You simply can't have a forward who misses so many chances, he had 2 good opportunities today, one which he couldn't have hit wider if he tried. Hes the one in that front 3 who should be worrying about his place the most.
We have had a lot of chop and change due to injuries so maybe I'm being harsh and over the top with the front 3 needing a refresh.
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My main disappointment has been the lack of variation of movement between the forwards and full backs and our not further developing our full backs games and contributions this season.
They get to play a lot higher up for a lot more time than the full backs of any other side in world football, they get to do so at the expense of having attacking midfielders and our midfielders getting further forward more often.
People talk, quite a lot, about my belief in one way of playing, but that's pertinently untrue, I'm always looking for and expecting Jurgen, the coaching staff and our players to expand on and evolve how we play, a big part of that HAS tp be evolving how our full backs play and contribute given what we sacrifice in other areas to allow them to play so high
We should even with the injury issues we've had and having had Thiago missing for most games, have already started the evolution of our full backs play and contribution as although at times there wouldn't be a player to release them, they could and should at least be being found in the half space between opposition RB and RCB and LB and LCB in a position to put an early low ball into the box in behind both CB's towards the penalty spot/far post.
Creating those situations isn't reliant of us having Virgil or Thiago, it only requires the deliberate movement of the LFWD or RFWD to take the full back very wide to the corner, the LCM or RCM to back them up down the line to allow Robbo or Trent to be found with a late run to arrive in that position to put in an early low cross or burst through the channel into the box with the ball
It's also hugely disappointing, that given the quality of the delivery of both, we haven't worked on both putting more balls in from deeper when in a wider position, it is on so many times in every game for both of them, more Robbo than Trent, where they can still play the ball through the channel between LB and LCB or RB and RCB or over LCB or RCB dipping just past the penalty spot towards the far post
For me, they should already be doing those things and both should be getting more goals
Those balls might at first not always have a player connect with them to turn them home, but putting them in there more frequently will surely prompt the variation of movement of the forwards until there are players arriving to connect with them in no time at all, and there we are, simply, easily doable variation of play and movement, with what we currently have at our disposal to better create and score goals against the sides that park the bus
People can slate our midfield all they like, the reality is, in Jurgen's set up, they, Gini and Hendo in particular have been used to create a platform for both our full backs to operate in areas other teams would have a more attacking mid, and they and Jurgen and the coaching staff aren't currently doing nearly enough to maximise that and expand on it
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
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Teams playing as deep as they do currently will limit Bobby's effectiveness. He is a counter-pressing Monster, but we are getting very few chances to counter-press in comparison to the past when faced with these 4-5-1 and 6-3-1 walls that will become the norm for us to face as we become a more possession-based and less transition-focused side.
I wouldn't be bombing Firmino out as I absolutely love what he brings to the Table in certain types of games and European matches especially will yield opportunities with him when it comes to transitions and counter-pressing, but I do think we are evolving to a point where someone else may in time push him further down the pecking order due to being a better fit for the direction we are headed in, be it Jota or someone else. Alternatively, some tactical tweaking may re-ignite Bobby a bit, but his capacity to contribute to the extent we would like has been wavering a little during this evolution of ours over the last 18 months or so.
It's fantastic to have his situational movement, vision, and creativity when he is in form and we are getting opportunities to transition but those two circumstances (and their overlap) seem few and far between right now.
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Teams have worked us out by defending deep so that makes his role difficult to justify when he's not scoring. We can say Salah and Mane aren't either but thry are only just recently off the boil. Firmino has been poor fir some time now.
Teams playing a high line against know they're getting taken out. It was happening a fair bit last season but we had a fair amount of luck and late goals that got us out of the jam.
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The problem isn’t Bobby’s play and contribution around the pitch. The problem is that he doesn’t score anything outside of a tap in these days. The goal Kane scored today none of our front 3 would have scored.
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To be fair eggy, Mo has belted one or two in from outside the box.
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