Ajax v Liverpool (CL Match Thread)

[Balinkay]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport.com/football/587617/premier-league-best-back-up-goalkeepers/amp/

Last season...
What's changed ?

Not having Caballero and Mccarthy as better than Adrian. But as you see, he's among the best.

[RedNoodle]

Why? How many teams in Europe have that? I'm asking as it's likely to be an indicator how important the position of reserve goalie is considered by the big sides in Europe. It's usually a waste of money. If Ali turns out to be a sick note and not available half the time we should sell him and get a sturdier replacement in rather than relying on a backup.

You still ask why despite having seen the effects of what happens when you don't have 'decent' (not world class) backup, even more so when there are already other issues in that third of the pitch.

Again I don't know or really care about what other teams have in reserve. I only care about what we have (or not) in reserve, and what effect that is currently having, and could have on us. I would hazard a guess that at least a few of the 'big hitters' in each of Europe's more prestigious leagues have a good first choice keeper, with a 'solid' one on the bench.

[Nineteenx]

The last time Klopp played 4231 over a significant part of the season we scored more goals than we did in 433. Our defensive records were broadly equal. Goal difference and points per game were up.

Klopp has played 4231 at LFC and Dortmund, it's not an alien system for him. I'm not sure why you believe our players are incapable of playing the system.

Thiago has just won a CL title playing in a 4231 setup, maybe he can play in a 4231 at lfc too. Hes won a lot of titles at Bayern.
Similarly Klopp playing 4231 and Bayern have found a way to get their full backs to contribute. I find it odd how you question Thiagos ability to play in a system hes mostly played in for the last long while.
Did we sign him because he clearly couldn't play in a 4231 at Bayern ?

Given our injury issues and whose available I'd like to see us play 4231 as stated earlier. It would get jota into the starting 11. It would also afford us the opportunity to get more minutes for Mini, Shaq, Jones and even Origi.

2 6s, a 5 man midfield with a sole striker playing a bit more compact and defensively could benefit our longevity over the season.
If we can get back on track and find some form in 4231 it would not surprise me if Klopp went back to a 433 when we are ticking properly. Like he did beforehand.

How are we 'out of sorts'? THE main thing that knocked us out of our imperious form was Klopp bringing Fabinho backi nto a side that had been playing his preferred 433 the best we ever have, he obviously isn't aware of the age old Liverpool adage ' if it aint broken, don't fix it'

The Villa debacle was the result of Jurgen playing a midfield that was found out in the 18/19 season with teams setting up to counter and release players through transitions involving players in Fabinho's area, Southampton immediately did it brilliantly in his first game back last season and despite the eventual scoreline in that game, in truth we were fortunate not to get beaten and then at Watford we were beaten for exactly the same reason

I would only 'have a look' at 4231 in the event we were without Thiago and Henderson as the other midfielders in any combination can't play as a 3 to anything like the required level, as they demonstrated tonight and v Villa. If we only have one of Hendo or Thiago available they have to play CM, teams target Fab very successfully, but it was noticeable v the bitters that with Hendo and Thiago either side of him, the variation of passes and number of switches that continually made them readjust and move mean they could never get set to try and work a transition, i still think it will make it far easier for teams to defend and counter against us and congest the area and render as many as 6 of our best 11 far less effective

Not sure which players you think you're protecting long term, we're only short at CB and playing 4231 isn't going to help that, playing 433 with the press and counter press at the levels it reached in Fabs absence last season would definitely help it, there many of those games it was so good Virgil and Joe never had to break a sweat. Playing the right midfield and forwards to make it that good again and possibly even better with Thiago seems the best solution to best manage our current situation

[vin]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport.com/football/587617/premier-league-best-back-up-goalkeepers/amp/

Last season...
What's changed ?

Let in seven v Villa

[Balinkay]

You still ask why despite having seen the effects of what happens when you don't have 'decent' (not world class) backup, even more so when there are already other issues in that third of the pitch.

Again I don't know or really care about what other teams have in reserve. I only care about what we have (or not) in reserve, and what effect that is currently having, and could have on us. I would hazard a guess that at least a few of the 'big hitters' in each of Europe's more prestigious leagues have a good first choice keeper, with a 'solid' one on the bench.

We do have a solid keeper on the bench though. He's not expected to play more that say two league games a season. Even if he costs us two points, are they really worth the extra say 50k a week a better second choice goalie would provide?

Usually not. The expected value of points per pound per week is imo lower than getting a better second choice forward. Especially with Adrian, who despite how much you dislike bim is a very decent goalie.

[RedNoodle]

We do have a solid keeper on the bench though. He's not expected to play more that say two league games a season. Even if he costs us two points, are they really worth the extra say 50k a week a better second choice goalie would provide?

Usually not. The expected value of points per pound per week is imo lower than getting a better second choice forward. Especially with Adrian, who despite how much you dislike bim is a very decent goalie.

Why do a few people think a 'solid' (not world class) keeper is going to cost us a lot more than what Adrian is already getting? That simply would not be the case unless we were very bad at negotiating.

[Balinkay]

Why do a few people think a 'solid' (not world class) keeper is going to cost us a lot more than what Adrian is already getting? That simply would not be the case unless we were very bad at negotiating.

But Adrian is a solid keeper. He makes mistakes at times but also pulls off absolutely insane saves - think Napoli away last year.

Woulldn't be a starter for a team in the top six, but could definitely do a job at a mid table side, as he showed with West Ham.

[Steveo]

He isn’t that bad a second choice.

Worth noting though that Adrian was beaten twice last night. First by Tadic forcing an incredible goal line clearance by Fabinho and again after the own goal when Klaassen’s excellent strike came off the inside of the post and somehow came back out.

3 moments of good fortune and all going our way.

Got the win.. still not sure how.

[Balinkay]

I don't think it was that bad, Steveo. You're always going to face one or two great chances away to Ajax. Even if they're not at their best.

[justincredible]

He isn’t that bad a second choice.

Worth noting though that Adrian was beaten twice last night. First by Tadic forcing an incredible goal line clearance by Fabinho and again after the own goal when Klaassen’s excellent strike came off the inside of the post and somehow came back out.

3 moments of good fortune and all going our way.

Got the win.. still not sure how.

He got a fingertip onto that shot that came off the inside of the post. So in fact, that was a worldie save.