Liverpool v Sheffield United (Match Thread)

[Nineteenx]

Gerrard could have played any position he was that good. Though i never thought he was that great at playing the second midfield role in a 3. He always wanted to get forward all the time which was his natural role..It sometimes left us open in midfield. (not slating him for that).Just think he was naturally suited to attacking. if we had another attacking midfielder he could have probably played well in the second role. We will never know on that matter.
The second role is what i consider the likes of Gini and Hendersons positions.. You dont expect them to be an outstanding attacking threat but they do the dirty stuff in the middle.
Of late we have tried to get Jota and Firmino (Minamino)the other evening to take it in turns to become the 3rd midfielder while the other plays as the number 9. Its very fluent in that sense..

Our best midfield prior to this current set up was Rafas Mascherano/Alonso/Gerrard combination. At the time Gerrard was unbelievably good.
Obviously Henderson is not the quality Steven Gerrard was. But you can't compare most midfielders to Gerrard. But to me Jordan Henderson is one hell of a player..

It's a combination of things for me, I think his captaincy and how he is able to orchestrate the press and counter press which is so vital to how this side plays and something that the other sides just didn't to to anything like this level, different managers, different set ups, different styles of play, but he constantly scans the pitch, organises and cajoles the entire team to make sure it's right and seems to know exactly where every player on the pitch is and where every player needs to be, that is simply incredible to me.

His passing for me is wildly under appraised and again, for me he's developed it to perfectly suit and be of as great a benefit as possible to our system and way of playing, which is really relatively new, especially played to the level our side does. Those switches, releasing the of and finding the full backs and forwards at precisely the right time and connecting their runs, that's not easy, that's not straight forward and again it requires incredible astuteness to know where every player is and what is on and which is the best pass of that type to make and when.

He drops those 30-40 yard balls, with backspin on it so it's easy to control and quickly up and down over defences at all sorts of angles time and time again, it is not an easy ball, these are 30-40 yard balls, played with the correct spin and flight to drop over the opposition defence camped on their 18 yard line to connect the forwards or full backs runs and if they are even slightly off the defender will head it clear or the keeper will come and collect or be on top of our forward as he receives the ball, they have to be so exact and precise

My actual favourite 2 pieces of play from Hendo last season were in the narrow wins over Spurs and Wolves, with Bobby scoring on both occassions, the press from him and anticipation and reading of both situations to intervene as he did was simply out of this world, just nipping in and nicking the ball to our player to feed Bobby for the Spurs goal, the Wolves one, if you watch the entire passage of play in the minute leading to the goal, it is simply press and counter press perfection

It is difficult to draw comparisons, because no other side really plays as we do or has, there are lots of exceptional players our there, playing different styles, different formations and different roles, I don't see any of them and ever think they could come to our team and be as devastatingly effective in doing all the things Henderson does in our system and set up. Some can do more with the ball, in a different set up and style of play, pretty much free to just look to create, but they aren't anywhere approaching his level in organising and leading their team or without the ball and those things are absolutely vital to us

[Nineteenx]

He has benefitted immensely from the consistency of selection and formation as have all our players and it's going to be tougher for all of them this season because we're not going to have that because of the volume of games crammed into a shorter season, but the point for me is he has honed, worked hard at evolved and fine tuned every aspect of his game to be of the greatest possible benefit and effectiveness and all our other players.

Those balls aren't easy balls, they have to be absolutely precise and even moreso because opposition sides are expecting them

[teesred]

There you go again You are seriously placing Carragher in the same bracket as Hansen, Lawrenson, Smith, Virgil, Hyypia and even Mark Wright who was an absolutely brilliant defender prior to serious injury? Seriously?

If you will, please list for me all the the attributes you believe Carragher possessed that one would associate with a top defender, a great defender

Was he dominant in the air at both ends of the pitch, or even in his own box for that matter?

Was he constantly scanning and a supreme reader of the game, always taking up expert positons and knowing what was on left and right and ahead of him and frequently stepping into midfield to tackle forwards to stop attacks developing?

Did he have that acute awareness, never letting players run off the back of him, eyes in the back of his head always knowing where the opposition forwards were?

Did he possess great technique and agility, a good passer of the ball able to contribute to the teams forward momentum with pin point long diagonals or at least decent long diagonals into a good area so we could win the first or second ball and capable of playing the odd 50-60 yarder over the top of the opposition defence? And quickly able to readjust, spin turn and 'sort his feet out' quickly if ever caught slightly out of position?

Was he excellent in one v ones, able to take expert positions and body shape and comfortably defend one v one situations, forcing the forward wide and away from goal and holding them up, or standing them up forcing them where he wanted them to go before stepping in and taking it cleanly off them?

There are a lot more than this obviously, but the others all had at least 3 or 4 of these, Virgil has the lot and more, how many would you say Carra had?

He didn't play CB regularly until Rafa came, Houllier and Evans tried him there and he was a disaster and never played him there again, Houllier even preferring "Igor has revealed himself in the position of CB" to playing Carragher there. A lot of those CB appearances came after Rafa had wanted to move him on and the infamous refusal to play at RB for the manager who had shown faith and belief and coached him to enable him to play a position no-one else believed he could. After Rafa's departure he 'traded' on the ridiculous, astronomic over appraisal and cult status his time under Raf had seen him acquire and used it to cling on for dear life for as long as he possibly could, he should have been replaced by Kompany in 2009 and that makes him a legend? Give over with your wild over appraisal

You're talking nonsense again and making things up. Where has this "he refused to play RB" come from? That's never been heard before you've just said it.
If you are in any doubt that Carragher isnt a legend at Liverpool you're following the wrong team pal. Wether you rate him or not that is without question.
All of the attributes you're asking for does not mean he wasnt a good defender, you dont play that many games for LFC being as bad as you say he was.

Any club could say they should have replaced a defender with Kompany, doesnt mean it could happen. It's just another of your delusions.l and pure hindsight.

Cling on for life as dear as he could? He retired off his own back. Another silly nonsensical from you.
In the 09 season we lost 2 games all season, in 01 we had the best defence in the league which he was part of.

Carry on convincing yourself he wasnt any good if it makes you feel better but all this comes back to your crazy overrating of Hendo.

[justincredible]

If Carra had extended his playing career by one more season we would have won the PL title in 13/14.
Of that I am absolutely certain....

[Steveo]

Possibly but plenty of match going fans would say he was over the hill the season before Justin and should have done what Neville did and hung up his boots sooner than he did.

A world class keeper would have done the trick though or a manager who was little more street wise.

[justincredible]

Possibly but plenty of match going fans would say he was over the hill the season before Justin and should have done what Neville did and hung up his boots sooner than he did.

A world class keeper would have done the trick though or a manager who was little more street wise.

Absolutely bang on about the keeper situation but it was hard enough to get decent keepers let alone world class ones. Especially seeing as Liverpool weren't dining at the top table back then either if we remember?
I guess we'll never know on the defender situation looking back now but Wee Brenny certainly got the attacking force of that squad on point.
That season was wonderful to witness on so many levels and it'll never be forgotten, especially Aspas' fooking corner against Chelsea. Lolzzzzz...

[Steveo]

If only Reina had kept his form for us.

[Balinkay]

If only Reina had kept his form for us.

It's staggering to imagine that in a different world it would have been at least somewhat plausible for him to still be between the sticks...

[skyebo]

It's staggering to imagine that in a different world it would have been at least somewhat plausible for him to still be between the sticks...

It took the club about 7 attempts to finally come up with a top class keeper since Reina left. Whether that be a keeper brought in to challenge for the jersey, or someone as an understudy who could come in and still do a job. They all failed miserably.

[southernboy]

This illustrates perfectly how shit football is BCD.