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Thread: Premier League table VAR applied correctly and honestly

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by justme View Post
    Fecking hell, Pickford gets away with a red card and not even a booking.. Now Digne as had his red card over turned.
    Quote Originally Posted by skyebo View Post
    I've seen many worse tackles than Digne's that went unpunished. I don't know who called it at the time, but to me they finally got it right. I think his attempt was more clumsy than vicious, unlike Pickford the week before.
    which one, the first or second trip?

    Quote Originally Posted by skyebo View Post
    No idea, and while they continue with these inconsistencies, it's making a mockery of the game.
    I'm losing my love of football with all the dishonesty going on in the game, TBH.
    There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief

  2. #32
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    1 Liverpool P7 W6 D0 L1 GF18 GA14 GD4 PTS18
    3 Chelsea P7 W4 D2 L1 GF 17 GA9 GD5 PTS 14
    4 Arsenal P7 W4 D2 L1 GF11 GA7 GD2 PTS14
    8 Everton P7 W4 D0 L2 GF15 GA12 GD3 PTS12
    12 Leicester P6 W3 D1 L2 GF13 GA9 GD4 PTS10
    14 Man City P6 W2 D3 L1 GF 9 GA9 GD0 PTS9
    16 Man UTD P6 W2 D0 L4 GF9 GA14 GD-5 PTS6

    I amended Arsenal's result from their incorrectly disallowed goal v Leicester and put that as a draw, which is all I'm doing, I know the goals incorrectly ruled out or given would change the other sides approach and could make for a different result, in case of the Arsenal v Leicester, with how they have improved and are hard to break down, I think they'd have most likely picked up all 3 points had their goal not be wrongly ruled out, but I'm not doing what might have happened, just awarding goals wrongly ruled out or given against so Leicester are now included in the table
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    1 Liverpool P7 W6 D0 L1 GF18 GA14 GD4 PTS18
    3 Chelsea P7 W4 D2 L1 GF 17 GA9 GD5 PTS 14
    4 Arsenal P7 W4 D2 L1 GF11 GA7 GD2 PTS14
    8 Everton P7 W4 D0 L2 GF15 GA12 GD3 PTS12
    12 Leicester P6 W3 D1 L2 GF13 GA9 GD4 PTS10
    14 Man City P6 W2 D3 L1 GF 9 GA9 GD0 PTS9
    16 Man UTD P6 W2 D0 L4 GF9 GA14 GD-5 PTS6

    I amended Arsenal's result from their incorrectly disallowed goal v Leicester and put that as a draw, which is all I'm doing, I know the goals incorrectly ruled out or given would change the other sides approach and could make for a different result, in case of the Arsenal v Leicester, with how they have improved and are hard to break down, I think they'd have most likely picked up all 3 points had their goal not be wrongly ruled out, but I'm not doing what might have happened, just awarding goals wrongly ruled out or given against so Leicester are now included in the table
    It's not much different to the real table.
    If you're not sure what to do with the ball, just put it in the net, and we'll talk about the other options later... Bob Paisley.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyebo View Post
    It's not much different to the real table.
    Not yet, sky. It's been 6 games. It likely (and hopefully) never will be.

    I had this discussion with RC back in the day. The "swings and roundabouts" cliche makes a lot of sense - the larger the sample size the more accurate it's likely to be. However, I don't think the 38 games are always a large enough sample size to guarantee that. Especially when there are games that essentially mean six points in terms of the title race.
    Etiam si omnes, ego non

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balinkay View Post
    Not yet, sky. It's been 6 games. It likely (and hopefully) never will be.

    I had this discussion with RC back in the day. The "swings and roundabouts" cliche makes a lot of sense - the larger the sample size the more accurate it's likely to be. However, I don't think the 38 games are always a large enough sample size to guarantee that. Especially when there are games that essentially mean six points in terms of the title race.
    were
    It is what it is, we started with 42 games, then 40, now it's 38. Over a period of a season, the best team will always win the title. How else can you gauge it ? I bet the best team won it when we were dominating the 80s. Strange how fans thought we got lucky with decisions,penalties and late goals back then.
    If you're not sure what to do with the ball, just put it in the net, and we'll talk about the other options later... Bob Paisley.

  6. #36
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    I hope Nineteenx obsession doesn't last all season. This thread could get very boring. if it isn't all really
    Leader of all..master of none..

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by justme View Post
    I hope Nineteenx obsession doesn't last all season. This thread could get very boring. if it isn't all really
    We could have got lucky with some of our title wins, as it's 30 years and more it's impossible to study isolated incidents from so far back. It's hard to win any league, but it's totally deserved whoever wins it.
    If you're not sure what to do with the ball, just put it in the net, and we'll talk about the other options later... Bob Paisley.

  8. #38
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    What does best mean, sky? We define the best team in the land as the team that wins the league. You can't then turn around and say that the best team always wins the league - that's a circular definition.

    But you are right - you can't and shouldn't gauge it any other way. These are the rules of the sport, this is what we've agreed upon. Like it or loathe it. I personally quite like it. But I suspect you are using the word in two different meanings in your sentence, though I'm not sure that matters right now.

    However, I am sure you'll agree that bogus decisions can influence the outcome of a single game, right? If that's the case, imagine a two team league. They play one single game on a neutral venue. Then, by definition, the outcome of that league would be influenced by bad refereeing decisions. So that league can be swayed by refs mucking up. Can a two team league with two games be swayed? Can a three team league? Clearly (assuming no agenda on the officials' part) as the number of teams and games approach infinity the likelihood of the outcome of the league being influenced by bad decisions approaches 0. What I'm saying is that 20 teams is too small a sample size to say that that likelihood is negligible. It's a lot smaller than it is in a two team league, but it's still not small enough to completely discount imo.

    Hard to say at what point it would be negligible - maybe a league with 1000 teams, I don't know. It's also a bit subjective. I'm very much inclined to agree with you that "the best" (and this is now using the word in a different sense to what I outlined in the first paragraph) wins the league almost always. But I must leave that space for the unlikely event of refs mucking up enough to ensure that a different team that's just a tiny bit worse (say all things being equal a team that's expected to win one point fewer) manages to leapfrog them.
    Etiam si omnes, ego non

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balinkay View Post
    What does best mean, sky? We define the best team in the land as the team that wins the league. You can't then turn around and say that the best team always wins the league - that's a circular definition.

    But you are right - you can't and shouldn't gauge it any other way. These are the rules of the sport, this is what we've agreed upon. Like it or loathe it. I personally quite like it. But I suspect you are using the word in two different meanings in your sentence, though I'm not sure that matters right now.

    However, I am sure you'll agree that bogus decisions can influence the outcome of a single game, right? If that's the case, imagine a two team league. They play one single game on a neutral venue. Then, by definition, the outcome of that league would be influenced by bad refereeing decisions. So that league can be swayed by refs mucking up. Can a two team league with two games be swayed? Can a three team league? Clearly (assuming no agenda on the officials' part) as the number of teams and games approach infinity the likelihood of the outcome of the league being influenced by bad decisions approaches 0. What I'm saying is that 20 teams is too small a sample size to say that that likelihood is negligible. It's a lot smaller than it is in a two team league, but it's still not small enough to completely discount imo.

    Hard to say at what point it would be negligible - maybe a league with 1000 teams, I don't know. It's also a bit subjective. I'm very much inclined to agree with you that "the best" (and this is now using the word in a different sense to what I outlined in the first paragraph) wins the league almost always. But I must leave that space for the unlikely event of refs mucking up enough to ensure that a different team that's just a tiny bit worse manages to leapfrog them.
    The best meaning gaining more points than the rest. You can get lucky over a few games, we were very lucky in all 3 cup finals in 2001. Yes bogus decisions can have an influence, but certainly not over the majority of games in a 38 game season. The league was always our priority and it still is, that's because you've proved to be the best over a long season. The best teams don't always win cups, but they always win the title.
    If you're not sure what to do with the ball, just put it in the net, and we'll talk about the other options later... Bob Paisley.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyebo View Post
    were
    It is what it is, we started with 42 games, then 40, now it's 38. Over a period of a season, the best team will always win the title. How else can you gauge it ? I bet the best team won it when we were dominating the 80s. Strange how fans thought we got lucky with decisions,penalties and late goals back then.
    Iirc in both 13/14 offside goal and 18/19 kompany red card, games v city and wrong calls in them were alleged to have robbed us of the title.
    In tight races wrong calls could be said to play a part between 2 or 3 best teams.

    This season iirc in the game v arsenal in the pl Arsenal fans claimed Mane should have seen a red card. Can't remember the tackle too well so can't say whether it was a fair claim or not.

    Were he sent off he misses 3 games. He scores v Everton and Sheffield united so how could you correct the table were he suspended.
    Same with a second yellow card tackle, a huge amount of unknowable and opinions as yellows can be dished out easily enough.

    I think we can moan about decisions but the lads have to be that good that they seal the deal and make refs inconsequential.
    It's a tough task but that's the challenge for the best. Lucky for us the get on with it mostly and hopefully they start getting on it from the off.

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