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Thread: Cavani Should Face the same ban as Suarez

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Dynasty View Post
    I'm going to play Devil's advocate here just a little bit and push back just a tad on this.

    Yes, it was the same word (or a derivation of it, rather than the exact same word), but are you really certain that it was used in exactly the dame way?
    By this I mean, what was the context?

    Let's not forget the exchange between Suarez and Evra was in the context of a heated confrontation between the two and the culmination of a back-and-forth that had been going on between them throughout that game.
    There was no way, in retrospect, to have painted it as nothing but meaningless or friendly or "harmless banter" between two opposing players in the field - in much the way some had tried to paint it as - and insofar as Suarez tried to claim that it's normally a term of endearment in South America (and yes, it is), that argument just could not fly in the context of where and when he was using it then.

    Further to that is the fact that Suarez and Evra are of different cultural and national dispositions with both coming from countries with different histories in racial issues - as well as different social contexts for racial relationships in the present.
    Even being generous to Suarez and the culture from which he came (which Cavani also happens to come from being his countryman), he should have been sensitive or not more sensible in his use of that term to someone from a different country that has racial issues and with both in another country that has fraught racial issues itself. (South America has it's own racial issues and was the second largest epicenter of the Atlantic Slave trade, but the fact that the term can be and is used as a term of endearment there whereas it never would be in most other parts of the world, should tell you that they've come to a different way of dealing with those issues)

    Now coming back to the Cavani situation, I'll fully disclose that I have no idea what the exchange was like between himself and the other person (hence why I asked for the context).
    If it was not in the midst of a confrontation and was indeed just "banter" between two people of (South American) Latin descent wherein that term can't be perceived as being an insult or a slur, then you can't argue that it was the same at all like the Suarez and Evra situation. And likewise I don't believe the punishment should match .....just because........"Manc".

    Society has to have higher standards than that, I believe.

    I think the League in general mishandled that situation (the Suarez-Evra situation) as did our own club, just like I believe Evra (harmfully) over-played the victim bit in it in a way that's really harmful to the wider fight against racism.
    Likewise I also believe a lot of people over-reacted with the Silva-Mendy situation last year when he was banned for 3 games, since we all knew the context of that one as well and it definitely was not an argument nor said in spite or malice.

    There are situations where people and players are racially abused and where the racist perpetrators should be banned and buried beneath the dirt. But going after "soft" targets just because you're worried about the perception or backlash if you're not being seen to be equally tough on all - I (personally) believe is just more harmful in the overall cause than helpful.

    Nuance is necessary.
    Context matters.

    Silva should have been punished, but more for ignorance than for malice or ill-intent.
    Perhaps Cavani should be punished and banned too if it's uncovered that it was in the midst of a heated argument and he threw it in there to belittle the other person (in which case you don't get more racist than that)
    And perhaps it might turn out that while the exchange was fairly non-belligerent and innocuous, he should STILL be punished but more for his ignorance in not knowing how harmful the term is in a different context in which he know is in, and even then the punishment should fit the crime, and not some (long held "grudge") standard of punishing everyone equally, regardless, just because the word was used, or just because he's a Manc (player) and now is the time to get them back.

    This is a bigger issue than that.
    You just saved me typing a response.

    Context is everything.
    "...and my inch is like a freight train, so I only use it in self defence"

  2. #22
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    "affectionate manner"

    "The Uruguayan international shared an Instagram story from a fan, using a racially offensive term. The post has since been deleted"

    He didn't even fucking say it for fuck sake, he was sharing something in his eyes was nice and saying thank you

    Only in wetwipe UK context is a huge thing for fuck sake, then again it's the same country that's changed baa baa black sheep, and fairytale of new york on the main radio station

    This country must be the softest in the world

    It's a joke if he gets a longish ban tbh, even if he is a manc would be fuming if it was one of our players

    Ban same as suarez?? VAR getting to some heads
    Last edited by Kev0909; 30th November 2020 at 12:02 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev0909 View Post
    "affectionate manner"

    "The Uruguayan international shared an Instagram story from a fan, using a racially offensive term. The post has since been deleted"

    He didn't even fucking say it for fuck sake, he was sharing something in his eyes was nice and saying thank you

    Only in wetwipe UK context is a huge thing for fuck sake, then again it's the same country that's changed baa baa black sheep, and fairytale of new york on the main radio station

    This country must be the softest in the world

    It's a joke if he gets a longish ban tbh, even if he is a manc would be fuming if it was one of our players

    Ban same as suarez?? VAR getting to some heads
    Have they changed Baa baa black sheep?
    "...and my inch is like a freight train, so I only use it in self defence"

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin View Post
    You just saved me typing a response.

    Context is everything.
    This. Read with interest the comments.

    This is very different to Suarez who was ‘found’ guilty of using an offensive term 7 times to a player in a running heated battle with the very purpose of abusing. I expect this one to be a rap on knuckles and education piece and would think that should suffice based on context.

    To compare the two is frankly ridiculous. Suarez was a shameful incident on the club and to all of our black supporters and those of us with black and mixed race children and families. I got dogs abuse on here for wanting Suarez out for this and the biting. Apparently that was disloyal and offensive. I chose to find it more offensive that someone wearing my shirt would do what he did and that many of my fellow reds were apologists for that because of who he did it to. He wasn’t accidentally racist he was deliberately repeatedly racist then lied to kenny, to fucking Kenny making him look a twat. Doesn’t matter whether it’s a shit like evra or United or a port vale player in a cup. Racism and a stance against it is and should have been bigger than the rivalry with them.

    Was glad when Jamie expressed regret of the support he gave Suarez. I think his and Terry’s racism was a watershed moment as far as players are concerned.

    Glad these days are behind us and hope we would deal with it better if it happened again both as a club and fans. And same at Chelsea. Keeping him as captain and keeping his legend banner up.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin View Post
    Have they changed Baa baa black sheep?
    "A warning that the nursery rhyme Baa Baa Black Sheep should not be taught in schools because it is "racially offensive" has been scrapped.

    The guidelines by education chiefs at Birmingham City Council were dropped after black parents condemned the advice as ridiculous....."
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/600470.stm

    I wonder if it has been reinstated since 2000 as these control freaks rarely give up on their various causes.
    ----------
    2014
    “Baa Baa Black Sheep” has been deemed racist, and will no longer be sung at some child care centers in Australia. The classic nursery rhyme was penned in the early 1700s, and has been a preschool staple around the world. Some child care centers in Melbourne changed the phrases in “Baa Baa Black Sheep” because administrators feel it is both racist and sexist.

    In an effort to reflect a “multicultural community,” the “Baa Baa Black Sheep” nursery rhyme the staff at south-eastern Melbourne suburbs child care centers told the Herald Sun the lyric was being changed because of concerns over the racial connotations of the term “black.” Kindergarten teachers at the early childhood education centers reportedly told the newspaper that the line, “one for the little boy who lives down the lane” may also be changed to avoid any sexist connotations.

    https://www.inquisitr.com/1551979/baa-baa-black-sheep-deemed-racist/

    I wonder if you could sue the state for making you a racist (sexist too) by this far right playschool indoctrination !!

  6. #26
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    Dirk Kuyt at the time said Suarez used the term 'negrito'. In South American culture it is not offensive and can even be considered a term of affection. But Alex Ferguson saw the opportunity to create a shit storm around Suarez, who he saw as single handedly raising Liverpool's level to make them title contenders. He was subsequently banned by the FA (full of old racists by the way) and it played a part in driving him out of English football.
    There is a Rolling Stones song called 'Hey Negrita'. I don't see or hear anyone complaining about it. And Luis Suarez's grandfather was black btw (nearly forgot to mention that).

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by faridtoxteth View Post
    Dirk Kuyt at the time said Suarez used the term 'negrito'. In South American culture it is not offensive and can even be considered a term of affection. But Alex Ferguson saw the opportunity to create a shit storm around Suarez, who he saw as single handedly raising Liverpool's level to make them title contenders. He was subsequently banned by the FA (full of old racists by the way) and it played a part in driving him out of English football.
    There is a Rolling Stones song called 'Hey Negrita'. I don't see or hear anyone complaining about it. And Luis Suarez's grandfather was black btw (nearly forgot to mention that).
    If Suarez wanted to use a word of affection he could have chosen plenty of different ones.
    If you're not sure what to do with the ball, just put it in the net, and we'll talk about the other options later... Bob Paisley.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious View Post
    Suarez said "negro" (pronounced "neh-gro") on one occasion, if his version of events is accurate.

    "Negrito" is a, for want of a better word, "softer" word again. One is a physical characteristic descriptive (which in South American culture seems to be "fine") whilst the other is a touch more endearing despite having the same basic meaning.

    A comparison I could make in terms of how it might be viewed through an English-speaking lens would be a couple where ("Negrito" comparison) a fella who has been with his wife for 30 years with a pre-established, banterish relationship might affectionately grab the Missus' love handles and say "my chunky Muffin" which, in their relationship context, is a term of endearment (even if it might go down a stinker with other people and even though he is basically calling her fat) whereas "Negro" would simply be the word "fat" - I have friends who would call THEMSELVES fat and I would say "fat" as a descriptive in certain contexts, but we all know that referring to someone as "fat" is, at best, open to interpretation and at worst (and often used this way at school age or amongst arseholes) packs a malicious punch.

    So to use this comparison (again, I know it isn't the best) imagine referring to a woman you were in a competitive environment with (playing Chess, both trying to grab the last of an item in the Supermarket) and busting out the "fat" word - it's only going to be taken one way no matter what your intent, whatever your thoughts on that are, versus the friendly pseudo-ridicule of your curvy Missus who is very comfortable with having an extra slice of Pizza rather than hitting the Gym and pokes fun at herself for it. You might think (for example) that it's better to let people know they are far as tough love so they exercise more/eat better/live longer and be genuinely using the word from a place of good wishes as you hate seeing your mate out of breath, but that isn't going to matter to most folk, etc etc.

    Given that Suarez himself said he used "negro" (excerpts from his book, referenced in the Guardian) it would suggest that "Negrito" came from somewhere else - perhaps even our PR team - though I truthfully have no desire to go back and analyse everything as it's a period our Club and fanbase could likely do with forgetting - I remember wincing when I saw that "Klanfield" newspaper article and not wanting to wear a Liverpool top for a few months in case it was taken to be a right-wing emblem for a bit by some of Northern Ireland's resident nutjobs that I wouldn't want to be associated with.
    The BMI chart is a hate chart. It objectified me.

    The tragically peculiar part of the control freak wokeist movement imo is that under its guise of helping people it produces a decline in resilience and we see an increase in anxiety disorders, depression, self harm and suicide rates.
    New age blasphemy laws imo.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taksin View Post
    Evra had been calling his mother a whore.. I've always thought it strange that he then became such a shrinking violet in response to a term that in Spanish is actually politically correct. People don't realise how the plasticity of English causes us to tie ourselves in knots enforcing the correct term. The recent example of the guy getting sacked - who was that again? - for referring to coloured people when people of colour is the new correct term comes to mind.
    And what punishment did Evra receive for his vile misogynistic slagging of Suarezs Mother ?

    Or did the fa tacitly endorse misogyny at that time?

    As an aside I see Macron is an Islamophobe now.
    Joining Corbyn, Bojo, Cleese, the Dalai Lama, Champion, Rowling, Sanders, Trump, Biden, HRC in the verbally pernicious far right.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    And what punishment did Evra receive for his vile misogynistic slagging of Suarezs Mother ?

    Or did the fa tacitly endorse misogyny at that time?

    As an aside I see Macron is an Islamophobe now.
    Joining Corbyn, Bojo, Cleese, the Dalai Lama, Champion, Rowling, Sanders, Trump, Biden, HRC in the verbally pernicious far right.
    There was wrong on both sides. Suarez was an exceptional player, but for us, more trouble than he was worth.
    If you're not sure what to do with the ball, just put it in the net, and we'll talk about the other options later... Bob Paisley.

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