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Thread: Your team v Burnley

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedNoodle View Post
    One person's 'half chance' is another person's 'good chance', which in turn is someone else's 'sitter'. Our midfield could/should be creating more chances, as well as scoring more goals themselves, but our front three aren't helping themselves by not getting shots on target, miscontroling the ball, taking too long to get shots away, hitting 'powderpuff' shots etc.

    In my opinion we've had more than enough 'chances' or 'opportunities' to have won all the games we've recently dropped points in. Many people expected our defence to be the thing that could/would end up costing us dear, but it's the other end of the pitch that has been the biggest issue as of late.
    All forwards miss chances all the fucking time

    Also really time you started to accept that our midfielders getting into more forward positions more frequently to hav the same amount of opportunity to do the things other club's midfielders you drool over do doesn't and won't happen because Jurgen has consistently used them deeper and more defensively as a platform to support our 3 forwards and 2 full backs playing as high as they have

    He's been doing that for 4 seasons now, one might have thought the chasm of difference between how our mids are used and what their role is compared to that of almost all other clubs might have sunk in by now
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    If you want to argue a point, it's usually best to argue against the actual point made and also demonstrate you do pay close attention to the finer points of our play and the games, having Hendo playing in midfield v Southampton when he played at CB obviously doesn't reflect well on you in that respect, nor does there not being any issues with our press v Newcastle or WBA and a combination of wasteful finishing, poor execution of the final ball and poor or rather bias officiating being the reason for the draws in those 2

    From when that fluid midfield 3 emerged last season i have maintained that our best midfield 3 should be fluid and include Hendo AND Gini plus one other who can operate in that 3 and facilitate the fluidity and be good in the press, Jones is not such a player yet and he was particularly abysmal v Fulham

    It has worked at its highest levels with Hendo Gini and Keita and resulted in all the latters best games for us, Thiago is a considerable step up from Naby with the same but more developed skills sets, so logically Thiago with Hendo and Gini should be an improvement on the best previous midfield since Jurgen arrived
    I got it wrong where Henderson played at Southampton, but in the other games he was employed in the position where Fabinho would have played but for injuries at the back. You can't put all the blame on Fabinho when the press breaks down, there are 3 players in midfield not just one. My point was Henderson was part of the 3 in those games when Fabinho was centre back. So the press wasn't working then either, unless you just want to blame the front 3 for dropping points.
    If you're not sure what to do with the ball, just put it in the net, and we'll talk about the other options later... Bob Paisley.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyebo View Post
    I got it wrong where Henderson played at Southampton, but in the other games he was employed in the position where Fabinho would have played but for injuries at the back. You can't put all the blame on Fabinho when the press breaks down, there are 3 players in midfield not just one. My point was Henderson was part of the 3 in those games when Fabinho was centre back. So the press wasn't working then either, unless you just want to blame the front 3 for dropping points.
    The press was absolute fine v WBA and Newcastle, both had one chance from a set piece, or recycled ball from a poor clearance from one, when i talk about Fabinho letting the press and counter press be broken easily it is always from him leaving the opposition player for transition, go and watch the short highlights from our best midfield performance this season v Palace and since before Fabinho was undeservedly brought back in last season, no surprises the midfield 3 were Hendo Gini and Keita.

    Pay particular attention to the position of all 3 on 3 or 4 of our goals, in the No6 position, very clearly focused on staying with the opposition player for transition should our play break down, you can see it with crystal clarity, unless you either don't want to or never noticed or understood our press and counter press at the highest levels since Jurgen arrived and the importance of the personnel and that 3 interchanging between all 3 positions, which in your case, is probably a mixture of both
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    The press was absolute fine v WBA and Newcastle, both had one chance from a set piece, or recycled ball from a poor clearance from one, when i talk about Fabinho letting the press and counter press be broken easily it is always from him leaving the opposition player for transition, go and watch the short highlights from our best midfield performance this season v Palace and since before Fabinho was undeservedly brought back in last season, no surprises the midfield 3 were Hendo Gini and Keita.

    Pay particular attention to the position of all 3 on 3 or 4 of our goals, in the No6 position, very clearly focused on staying with the opposition player for transition should our play break down, you can see it with crystal clarity, unless you either don't want to or never noticed or understood our press and counter press at the highest levels since Jurgen arrived and the importance of the personnel and that 3 interchanging between all 3 positions, which in your case, is probably a mixture of both
    I understand the game perfectly well. Most people on here recognise the importance of Fabinho in the team whether it's in the middle or at the back. You clearly don't because of all the negative comments you put on about him. I will praise anyone who plays well, though you were the same when Joe Allen dared to take Lucas's place in games or come on for him, so i'm not totally surprised at your bias. You say there was nothing wrong with the press in those games. I bet there would have been if Fabinho was playing there and who would be getting the stick.
    Last edited by skyebo; 19th January 2021 at 10:31 PM.
    If you're not sure what to do with the ball, just put it in the net, and we'll talk about the other options later... Bob Paisley.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    All forwards miss chances all the fucking time

    Also really time you started to accept that our midfielders getting into more forward positions more frequently to hav the same amount of opportunity to do the things other club's midfielders you drool over do doesn't and won't happen because Jurgen has consistently used them deeper and more defensively as a platform to support our 3 forwards and 2 full backs playing as high as they have

    He's been doing that for 4 seasons now, one might have thought the chasm of difference between how our mids are used and what their role is compared to that of almost all other clubs might have sunk in by now
    Not ALL forwards miss ALL their chances ALL the time. When they do start missing it's usually not a teams entire forward line. Most, if not all forwards go through periods (some longer than others) where things aren't quite coming off for them, but what happens in those instances, or at least should when it comes to any 'big' club is that either a few 'decent' alternatives are available (we had just one, and we all know why we only had one, and who is responsible for his absence), and/or other players/areas of the pitch take up some of the slack and chip in with some goals and creativity. As it stands our entire forward line is off form, and not only do we not have any decent alternatives, but no other player/area is picking up the slack.

    I know the way Klopp plays, but that doesn't mean it is always the right way to play, or that it cannot be altered slightly to give us a bit more of whatever it is that we happen be lacking. Klopp's way of playing also means that you need a large, fit squad, and a quality one at that. Currently we have a weak squad that is full of injured players, meaning that unless the bulk of our squad remains fit, and virtually all of our first XI stay injury free, we are always playing on a knife edge. It happened at Dortmund, and the current situation with us isn't looking too dissimilar.

    You talk as if no player has ever existed who has the ability to provide both some solidity in midfield, but can also add a bit of creativity and a few goals. Even if there wasn't such players, you should still have others available to you who can come into the team and make a positive difference as and when a change of approach needs to be made, not that Klopp would necessarily make any changes until very late in the game.

  6. #56
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    He brought Thiago in for the extra creativity, hardly his fault Oliver and the VAR twats didn't send Prickford off and tried to let the bitters kick us off the park to the combined effect that Richarlieson was emboldened to lamp Thiago

    Hopefully we'll get rid of a few stealing a living in the summer and add Fabian Ruiz, another like Thiago who is absolute quality, would fit right into how we play add more creativity and quality with the ball and who'd add more goals and assists
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  7. #57
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    Maddison would be an excellent signing.. Along with Haaland
    Cleaning up the Scots since the 13th century

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyebo View Post
    I understand the game perfectly well. Most people on here recognise the importance of Fabinho in the team whether it's in the middle or at the back. You clearly don't because of all the negative comments you put on about him. I will praise anyone who plays well, though you were the same when Joe Allen dared to take Lucas's place in games or come on for him, so i'm not totally surprised at your bias. You say there was nothing wrong with the press in those games. I bet there would have been if Fabinho was playing there and who would be getting the stick.
    I'm all about the team, always have been, 'the team' evolved, played at the highest levels it ever has both performance and results wise in his absence and it was wrong to bring him back in when Klopp did, i think Fab's been brilliant at CB and 'was' very good as an out and out DM when the team played with a fixed deeply lying DM, since the evolution of our play the DM role, as it was when Fab played it no lnger exists, it's a CM role and Fab isn't a CM

    Jurgen bought Thiago and didn't replace Lovren for that reason imo, Fab was our Lovren replacement and Thiago and Hendo replaced Fab in midfield because the role e was bought to play became defunkt and he isn't a CM
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    I'm all about the team, always have been, 'the team' evolved, played at the highest levels it ever has both performance and results wise in his absence and it was wrong to bring him back in when Klopp did, i think Fab's been brilliant at CB and 'was' very good as an out and out DM when the team played with a fixed deeply lying DM, since the evolution of our play the DM role, as it was when Fab played it no lnger exists, it's a CM role and Fab isn't a CM

    Jurgen bought Thiago and didn't replace Lovren for that reason imo, Fab was our Lovren replacement and Thiago and Hendo replaced Fab in midfield because the role e was bought to play became defunkt and he isn't a CM
    How can Fabinho be Lovren's replacement? Lovren wasn't getting games and was only 4th choice. Fabinho plays every week. Time will tell who gets their places when they are all fit.
    If you're not sure what to do with the ball, just put it in the net, and we'll talk about the other options later... Bob Paisley.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyebo View Post
    How can Fabinho be Lovren's replacement? Lovren wasn't getting games and was only 4th choice. Fabinho plays every week. Time will tell who gets their places when they are all fit.
    Time will tell, but Thiago i a CM, so putting your 'Hendo took the armband after Stevie' bias to ne side and takking captain fantastic out of the equation for a minte

    Is Thiago a far superior CM to Fabinho?

    Will teams try to smother him to prevent him creating?

    As Thiago can create from anywhere but will mostly start at CM will he be of the greatest possible benefit to the team playing in a fluid midfield 3 interchanging positions throughout whereby it's almost impossible for opposition managers to detail 1 or 2 players to stop him creating because he's not playing in a fixed position?

    Given Thiago is a vastly superior CM to Fab, who pertinently isn't a CM, but is a very good DM, AND that we can't play a fluid midfield 3 with Fab and never have and other midfielders who can play the fluid 3 all offer more creatively and in the press and counter press than Fab, do you honestly expect Fab to start at CM ahead of Thiago in what would be a rigid 3 in fixed positions?

    I don't, i think Fab's role this season was going to be largely from the bench or in cup games, coming on for the last 20 minutes in games we were comfortably ahead in as an extra defender or midfielder or to give Trent 20 minutes rest with Gomez moving to RB or one of our first choice mids 20 minutes rest
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

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