Under-investment

[Steveo]

They tagging on of some politically motivated and hypocritical garbage at the end needs pointing out, as imo the article isn't as good as you think.

If you post an article you describe as succinct with the refs and city in it, don't be surprised if the reply to your article addresses those points in the article you posted.

It's rather glowing of city and yet fails to acknowledge we are having a dip they had last season. The CAS overruling the decision based on sound reporting on them in Germany. City shouldn't be in the cal this year and should be suffering from their own corrupt accounting practices.
Yet the case case again let's cheaters, benefit.

I'll defend Klopp and Henry against your Winters article.

I'm under no illusion as to the significance of klopp in our upturn in fortunes.
Net spend was larger in the same timeframe before Klopp arrived. Yet the benefits of that extra investment didn't materialise in 2 massive titles, 2 incredible pl seasons and 3 euro finals.
Same way with arsenal it didn't materialise, same way it didn't prevent Pepsi city dipping last season.
Spurs are also a very well run club too without the titles.

I did ask you what indicators are credibly the basis for the predicted summer out come ? Like most journos I'd suggest the artistry of the piece overrides a critical and composed piece.

Way i see it Klopp arrived and talked about building organically, using time to get a side together and acquire the requisite parts.
He was given that time and when the time came he got most of the targets he wanted, according to him he settled for Salah as the back up option.

We are all whinging now and fucked off with the season, bcd football, yet there was little to mean about at the start of the season.
I'd have liked Mbappe of course.

I shouldn't have to spell it out for you twice..!

Reading is not the same as understanding.

Indicators like these

1. An enhanced sense good will among many supporters due to the atrocious nature of their predecessors and by comparison with the Glazers down the East lancs. Their crowning glory in Klopp - which I always credit them.. And the 2 stand out purchases Virgil and Alisson - payed for by...? insert your own musings..

2. Continually trying to drive up prices, use TAX payers money to save them paying club staff salaries - despite record profits

3. That they are first and foremost investors who aim for a windfall rather than to facilitate continued success on the pitch



1.The company is largely perceived as a good owner, partly because it is not Tom Hicks and George Gillett — fellow Americans and unpopular predecessors — nor the Glazers at Manchester United, and because John W Henry, the club’s principal owner, engages in community initiatives, speaks well and showed decisiveness when appointing Jürgen Klopp and recruiting Alisson and Virgil van Dijk.

2. Yet FSG is also the organisation that proposed a £77 ticket before apologising to fans who staged a mass walkout in protest in 2016, that furloughed staff last year before relenting after a supporters’ backlash, that co-drove the shameless attempted power-grab of Project Big Picture and is now involved in money-spinning plans for a European Super League.

3. For all the occasional romantic narrative spun around Henry, he is a businessman, looking for a fistful of dollars and more. Liverpool is not a hobby, a passion for Henry; he is prospecting in a Kop Klondike. Do the maths. Money means more. At a time when Liverpool’s squad required proper investment, Henry paused. All the indications are that the summer will be another period of retrenchment, of the seeds of success left unsown, and the fields of Anfield Road lying fallow.

You don't notice these nuggets because you don't like them.

[CCTV]

Nah there was plenty of posts even last season worrying about the mini slump in form post lockdown 1, though rather hopefully we all put it down to having walked the league and not needing to be near our best to finish. In reality the slump started last season.

That's a fair point, I do remember many posts about how they had won the league and had their rhythm interrupted.

Don't recall statements back then that they were fatigued and jaded after the lockdown 1 break from football. More a time off issue as with our winter breaks in years prior.

[Steveo]

That's a fair point, I do remember many posts about how they had won the league and had their rhythm interrupted.

Don't recall statements back then that they were fatigued and jaded after the lockdown 1 break from football. More a time off issue as with our winter breaks in years prior.

I said we would likely be here back in the summer of 2019 - even suggesting we might well win the title with a galvanised team desperate for justice in missing out by a single rotten point.

I didn't predict the injuries but I did predict a huge crash in performance levels. For me it started a year ago. 6 months after we failed to buy anyone following that remarkable season ending with a 6th European Cup.

[skyebo]

Maybe for next season the club could stump up £300m on new players, to ensure we get past the giants that is Brighton Southampton Newcastle Burnley and Villa. I'm not including WBA and Fulham as they are going down. If you look at the results against those teams, that's not down to the owners, it's down to Klopp and his players.

[Steveo]

Oh the sound of Ennio never ages..

[teesred]

Talking about City and Utd’s spending is a red herring in this debate, held onto by the naysayers in this discussion.
Those of us who feel there is lack of investment point to our 14th placed position in the net spend table on the back of record profits, a Champions League win, World Club Cup/ Championship win and a Premier League win.
No one expects us to spend the obscene amounts spent by City and Utd but we could expect to match or better at least 10 of those clubs above us in the net spend table.
Our performances and results against the bottom six this year are appalling, something which would have improved with a stronger squad.
Financially we are one of the strongest clubs in Europe, outside the Oil rich anomalies.

Net spend may not be everything but it’s a large part of it and a major indicator in the debate. Bringing up City constantly is just annoying they are completely irrelevant.

100 percent.
I don't think any fan would deny that FSG have turned the club around in terms of a well functioning business but that is all because of success on the pitch. If that drys up then so does everything else. They all compliment each other in terms of staying ahead and on track.
The most poignant part of that article is how embarrassing a saga it will be if we finish out of the top 4 whilst pushing for a super league or whatever guise it may be.

[teesred]

Oh the sound of Ennio never ages..

Movie!

[teesred]

That's a fair point, I do remember many posts about how they had won the league and had their rhythm interrupted.

Don't recall statements back then that they were fatigued and jaded after the lockdown 1 break from football. More a time off issue as with our winter breaks in years prior.

There were more than a few of us who said so.
I particularly remember the Wolves game where we laboured to a win, that was in January. We were spent back then. After boxing day was when it started, 20 odd pints ahead obviously added to it but the signs of burnout were there.

[justme]

Maybe for next season the club could stump up £300m on new players, to ensure we get past the giants that is Brighton Southampton Newcastle Burnley and Villa. I'm not including WBA and Fulham as they are going down. If you look at the results against those teams, that's not down to the owners, it's down to Klopp and his players.

Its simple do you wants us to buy quality players or not? I watched Carragher mention how much our top players have played ie amount of games over the last 3 years. They are bound to run out of steam. Or are you happy with them doing it again next season

[CCTV]

I shouldn't have to spell it out for you twice..!

Reading is not the same as understanding.

Indicators like these

1. An enhanced sense good will among many supporters due to the atrocious nature of their predecessors and by comparison with the Glazers down the East lancs.

2. Continually trying to drive up prices, use TAX payers money to save them paying club staff salaries - despite record profits

3. That they are first and foremost investors who aim for a windfall rather than to facilitate continued success on the pitch - again despite record profits.



1.The company is largely perceived as a good owner, partly because it is not Tom Hicks and George Gillett — fellow Americans and unpopular predecessors — nor the Glazers at Manchester United, and because John W Henry, the club’s principal owner, engages in community initiatives, speaks well and showed decisiveness when appointing Jürgen Klopp and recruiting Alisson and Virgil van Dijk.

2. Yet FSG is also the organisation that proposed a £77 ticket before apologising to fans who staged a mass walkout in protest in 2016, that furloughed staff last year before relenting after a supporters’ backlash, that co-drove the shameless attempted power-grab of Project Big Picture and is now involved in money-spinning plans for a European Super League.

3. For all the occasional romantic narrative spun around Henry, he is a businessman, looking for a fistful of dollars and more. Liverpool is not a hobby, a passion for Henry; he is prospecting in a Kop Klondike. Do the maths. Money means more. At a time when Liverpool’s squad required proper investment, Henry paused. All the indications are that the summer will be another period of retrenchment, of the seeds of success left unsown, and the fields of Anfield Road lying fallow.

You don't notice these nuggets because you don't like them.

I read them but they are not what I'd call wise or useful in predicting summer investment.

1) a nothing paragraph in my opinion

2) ticket prices rise and clubs can set increases, fans can protest, they are tax payers and can receive benefits as a result, the move two a European super league has been mooted for some time and before jwh bought the club. Again for me these are nothing much in terms of significance.

The financial analysis I posted is probably a better basis and yet I conclude time will tell.

"All the indications are that the summer will be another period of retrenchment, of the seeds of success left unsown, and the fields of Anfield Road lying fallow."
Waxing lyrical and talking shite. Given he has so much advice for Klopp as an esteemed pundit maybe Klopp should hire Winters to be his assistant coach
This is a great example of pandering to the target audience and not writing a robust and credible piece imo.

Spurs are above us in the net spend table when under klopp wed been ahead of them mostly.
They spent after losing the cl final and haven't seen a bang for their buck.

We are at the point where our amortisation costs are going down and our big summer spending as dubbed by media then to mount pressure on Klopp are past their halfway point. Now its turning on the low net spend, when the net spend was low per season the time they were going on about our big summer spending.

Henry and Klopp get their detractors online and in media too, yet he'll mention toning down ref talk by managers while critiquing a manager. Plenty of advice for the hapless Klopp and Henry.
Ignoring the reality that defending a title is tougher, or that city had their slump after 2 excellent seasons.