Under-investment

[LEGS]

The money spent on the stadium and training ground are not 'sunk costs'. When they finally sell up they will almost certainly get back more than what those initial investments cost.

yeah they probably will do Noods.

With the way the world is nobody knows what is going to happen in the next few years they are cautious we know this and they always have been, they not throw money about.

We need to face it City are the team likely to win the most titles we cannot spend what they can Pep is a good manager but when you can keep throwing £50m on defenders it’s not exactly difficult is it

[RedNoodle]

yeah they probably will do Noods.

With the way the world is nobody knows what is going to happen in the next few years they are cautious we know this and they always have been, they not throw money about.

We need to face it City are the team likely to win the most titles we cannot spend what they can Pep is a good manager but when you can keep throwing £50m on defenders it’s not exactly difficult is it

Man City keep getting used as the example as to what level of spending is required, but that is not the case, nor has anybody I've come across suggested such a thing. All I and most other Reds want is for us to spend amounts commensurate with our standing in the world of football both on and off the pitch. In both regards we are in the top five clubs in the world, yet going by how much we 'spend' on the team/squad, you'd think we were a mid table PL club, not the reigning PL champions and six times winners of the EC/CL.

We can spend much, much more than we have/are without us becoming akin to a club like Man City.

[Kev0909]

Imagine if we sold origi and got someone who can actually score in 20-30m+ origi sale heck even watkins would of been good enough

Replacing lovren only would take 10-20m for a half decent CB (heck could of sold Wilson/Grujic) instead of loaning em out

both of these should of been done ages ago, yes now we have 2 new cbs... bit late

Should stop fucking about over saving 1 m here and there, and sold Wilson grujic origi and used the money for what i've just said, 20-30m investment from FSG..... WOW!!!! man city levels init

we're not fucking Oxfam

[LEGS]

Man City keep getting used as the example as to what level of spending is required, but that is not the case, nor has anybody I've come across suggested such a thing. All I and most other Reds want is for us to spend amounts commensurate with our standing in the world of football both on and off the pitch. In both regards we are in the top five clubs in the world, yet going by how much we 'spend' on the team/squad, you'd think we were a mid table PL club, not the reigning PL champions and six times winners of the EC/CL.

We can spend much, much more than we have/are without us becoming akin to a club like Man City.

Man City get used as like it or not they are number one.

You keep banging on about our squad not being good enough well the only way we get that is spending the type of money they have done.

You won’t get good/very good players happy to sit on a bench unless you pay them £100-150k a week we can’t sustain that.

Chelsea/City are the worse thing to happen to football as it scrambles people’s heads on what is and isn’t realistic.

You keep going on about top 5 it’s means shit if City spend more and keep winning the league we at best come second which last time I checked you get nothing for.

I’d rather the league was done properly like the MLS and nobody can outspend anyone then you have a proper competition.

[justme]

Teams are being fucked over with the pandemic.. the only teams that arent are Man-city and Chelsea.
they have a huge advantage over the rest of the footballing world..Every club in football is running at a huge loss.. some will be in massive financial mess. But Man-city will go out and spend what ever they want in the summer.
I think we need to compete with the top signings.. Be it Haaland or someone with the same ability.

[Taksin]

We sold Coutinho to fund that Ian. That isn’t really investment.

We sold Coutinho because he forced his way out of the club

[RedNoodle]

Man City get used as like it or not they are number one.

You keep banging on about our squad not being good enough well the only way we get that is spending the type of money they have done.

You won’t get good/very good players happy to sit on a bench unless you pay them £100-150k a week we can’t sustain that.

Chelsea/City are the worse thing to happen to football as it scrambles people’s heads on what is and isn’t realistic.

You keep going on about top 5 it’s means shit if City spend more and keep winning the league we at best come second which last time I checked you get nothing for.

I’d rather the league was done properly like the MLS and nobody can outspend anyone then you have a proper competition.

Man City often get used as the only other alternative to our current approach. This is done to try and shut down any rational/logical discussion on the issue, just as is the case with a fair few other issues currently plaguing the wider world e.g. if you don't think or go along with X it definitely means you are Y.

It's not a case of either/or, there is plenty of scope between our current approach, and that taken by the likes of Man City. We don't need a bench of 'superstars', but what we do need is a bench/squad with a decent amount of fit, reliable and decent-good quality players. As it is we have very few players who fit ANY of those categories, never mind all three. As a result the gap between our first XI and the rest of the squad is massive, as it has been for far, far too long. That is why we have continually failed to build on any success we've had over the last 30 years, and why the likes of both sets of Mancs and Chelsea have had sustained periods of success.

Until that changes we are going to be inconsistent as hell i.e. one or two good seasons followed by a few more mediocre (at best) seasons. That is only going to be made worse as and when Klopp leaves, something you are failing to take into account i.e. our lesser 'resources' (not according to 'official' figures) should be offset somewhat by having the best manager at the helm. That is why we have had a couple of outstanding seasons despite the disparity in resources. Now just imagine what could be possible if Klopp was given a bit more.

This isn't the MLS. The only way you'll compete is either by having more money than everyone else, one of, if not the best manager, or a combination of the two. I prefer that last approach, and irrespective of you willingness to dismiss this fact, us having the standing we do both on and off the pitch means we are one of a small number of clubs who can and should be taking that latter approach.

[Nineteenx]

Continual under investment and sentimentality in 2 or 3 cases and not shipping 2 or 3 out when their stock was a lot higher and building a far stronger squad is absolutely biting us in the arse this season and FSG have no-one but themselves to blame

[Crimson Dynasty]

Man City keep getting used as the example as to what level of spending is required, but that is not the case, nor has anybody I've come across suggested such a thing. All I and most other Reds want is for us to spend amounts commensurate with our standing in the world of football both on and off the pitch. In both regards we are in the top five clubs in the world, yet going by how much we 'spend' on the team/squad, you'd think we were a mid table PL club, not the reigning PL champions and six times winners of the EC/CL.

We can spend much, much more than we have/are without us becoming akin to a club like Man City.

Noods, "standing in the world of football" is not equal to nor commensurate with actual wealth.

You do know that, right?

Our so-called 'standing' as a global brand in the football world is built mostly on the reputation of our successful eras in the 70's and 80's during which periods we didn't actually capitalize on that dominance, off the field the way we could have.
Simply because nobody knew how to do that back then and the world (both sporting and wider) wasn't set-up for that at the time.

When the Mancs came along in the 90's under the Fergie era, as much as it pains me to admit it, they hired the right people who knew how to make the most of the success they were enjoying on the field, and built them to be the off-pitch financial brand that we know them to be.
They built the model that every other team now tries to emulate (the non-'Oil Money' teams that are mostly self-sustaining) - specifically those two powerhouses in Spain.

And which we, whether we want to admit it or not ourselves, are also hoping to emulate on some level now.

But it takes more than a decade of mostly continuous, if not uninterrupted success and dominance on the field (and a hell of a whole lot more than just "a global name in world football") alongside responsible custodianship off of it, to achieve that and we've barely had more than a couple of seasons (with the years before that being used by FSG to stabilize things off the field and put in place the things we need to be a sustainable model - like the Anfield expansion(s))


We CAN'T spend much more than we have.
We have neither the collateral to get the funding for it (again, your "name" and branding can only get you so far), nor I would hope, the recklessness or will to want to do so.
We barely even have the reputation for it now.
We're defending champions - but so were Leicester at one point - and of our 6 EC/ Champions' League wins, 4 came before most fans were even born and the one before the most recent one was over a decade ago when we were a few years prior to being close to going into administration.

I think Liverpool fans have to get some sense of humility, reality and perspective when it comes to our situation.

Do you want to be a club in debt? Because that's what it would take to achieve the spending levels you're craving.
Or do you want to be part of a responsibly managed club that's sustainable enough, so that even if they do decide to sell up, we won't be in a worse off situation?

Because the only other alternative to those two is being the moneybags toy of an Oil baron somewhere in the Middle East or Russia.
And there aren't many of those going around that would be acceptable to most LFC fans.


FSG wanted to furlough staff when the pandemic initially hit - something that they were already paying into like all other tax-paying entities - but they got slammed by fans and many in the press and the punditry class and ex-players as doing something that wasn't "the Liverpool way" (whatever the hell that means).
Not realizing at the time that by forcing them to turn back on that decision would impact their ability to buy new players or reinforce the squad like they had wanted to.

I thought it was stupid at the time (the complaints by fans, not the decision by FSG, which I understood where it was coming from, even if I may not have agreed completely), but now the same people who were slamming me for pointing it out are complaining about the clubs inability to buy new players or compete in mad prices for new players.
Clearly most of these people have never run businesses.

You can't have it both ways.

[Steveo]

We sold Coutinho because he forced his way out of the club

Good job he did right...?