Liverpool v Chelsea (Match Thread)

[Nineteenx]

We can't score from set pieces without Virgil and/or Matip

We can't play the line sohigh without Virgil and/or Matip or Gomez if our press and counter press is good enough to restrict the opposition to hopeful forward balls

We can't play our best press and counterpress without Hendo and Gini with Hendo at CM to support a high but lowered line

We can't use our forwards and full backs at their best and create overloads without Hendo and Virgil and/or Matip playing the switches, balls over the top and long diagonals

So, we can't do any of the things that made us Champions

[Nineteenx]

We can't pass through teams either, we've never done it and don't have the midfielders to do it and it's painful watching us have to try to do it because we don't have the players that are key to doing the things that made us Champions

[Insidious]

A lot of the cohesion is off, for sure.

On the right side for example, without Henderson covering the vacated space, Trent can play within himself a bit.

On the left, Mane hasn't been at the peak of his powers and seems to be coming inside a little more, so there's a detrimental effect on the link-up with Robertson who, good as he is, isn't a dribbler. He needs a 1-2 with Mane so he can run onto a ball to zip a cross in - he is not someone to receive a ball and dribble past a man before delivering.

We look weaker all over the place with almost all of our symbiotic links. It's a bit difficult to watch just now.

[justme]

To me once we get back to having a strong back line..Fabinho/hendo + another in midfield. and a natural from 3. We will look better. We play better when we control games and slow the pace then quicken it in the final 3rd. Right now we are not settled in many ways.. we are trying but its not coming off.. And secondly after such an hard season last season and the tension over the last 2/3 months wondering if were going to be denied the league. It must of taken a lot out of the team and manager emotionally.
Its very difficult to reach that high again. on top of that Klopp lost his mother. Allison lost his father recently.. Theres been a lot of upheaval. Not to mention all the injuries.. I do think personally once we get back next season.We do have the ability to go win 8/9 games in a row and do that 2/3 times . Its not the end of the world has some seem to think.

[teesred]

I remember Sid saying a couple of months ago "It will get worse before it gets better". I personally thought it won't last long at all. Here we are, first week of March coming to an end.
This is becoming and epic,embarrassing surrender of being champions. Something that can and will be used to bait us, make no bones about it no amount of positivity or excuses covers up losing 5 home games for the first time in our history. That is one attribute to be thoroughly ashamed of and I hope every one of them is.
I'm not having "no fans", injuries,VAR or any other excuse. Its shameful and hurtful to the fans of the club. We know there will be the usual suspects with their twitter bollocks. Next time this,next time that. Fuck off with it now,
Its time for this to stop.
That team has players who are gassed yes, injuries yes but one home goal all year. Not acceptable in anyones lifetime as an LFC fan.

The biggest shock of tonight is that it wasn't a shock. Thats what's hurting the most, we're expecting this.
Worryingly its the lack of actually looking like we can fight our way out of it and we look like the towel went in a while ago. Positivity is in short supply at my end right now.

[Nineteenx]

Chelsea's plan was simple enough, with the players we don't have we have to try and play through, when we try that the players aren't in good counter press positions when we lose it,almost all their chances all came from nicking it, and having time and space to play their switches and balls over the top

[Steveo]

Is that 18 losses in all comps this calendar year?

EDIT:

It’s 17 losses since losing to Watford.

Bloody hell that is woeful. 8 of them BEFORE The Infamous Everton game.

[eggy81]

2 points less than moyes united after 27 games. That’s fecking grim.

[Nineteenx]

Is that 18 losses in all comps this calendar year?

EDIT:

It’s 17 losses since losing to Watford.

Bloody hell that is woeful. 8 of them BEFORE The Infamous Everton game.

I know it's not at all popular here, but for me everything started unravelling when Jurgen changed the midfield 3 last season and failed to get Matip back in when fit, midfield most of all, we've never looked right or the same since and that was pre covid.

Said it on the Captain thread I think, Henderson became an accidental playmaker, having him at CM, orchestrating the press and counter press and that fluid three and his passing became essential to the way we evolved to playing, to me moving him from there with the difference it had made to the team was like if Harry Redknapp had moved Gareth Bale back to LB after what happened to his team and for him as a player when he came in for Kranjcar and let's not forget, he got POTY for his performances in that role, so not just me, a lot of people who've watched a hell of a lot of football saw it too

It was kind of the point I was trying to make about things breaking down, the difference to everything we did and were able to do with just the one change to midfield and how that changed the dynamics of so many other things was just really apparent and obvious to me, if not to anyone else and when you do something like that, it's not just so simple as putting the players back in those positions and trying to recreate it and we haven't even done or tried that anyway.

Jurgen's frequently spoken of the players having to work out things between themselves and encouraged it, well, to me they did that, played to even higher levels and then he changed it and then changed other things this season, to compound that , the trying to pass through sides, especially given we don't have the midfielders or forwards for that was just lunacy in my view

It is a massive change to go to trying to play through teams when pressing and counter pressing to the highest levels I've ever seen has been so integral to your success, because players stop being in brilliant counter pressing positions and suddenly you're wide open whenever your play breaks down because of that

Despite many people knocking my assertions on much of this, I've seen quite a few of late coming to the realisation that changes did break down the Mane Robbo partnership that was so important to us

Trying to look to play through every side and ditching the switches and balls over the top to me was a very clear deliberate thing, somebody had decided was how we were going to try and play moving forward, I asked so many games ago whether henderson was carrying a knock or had been instructed not to play like that, because he'd look up see the run of Mane, Robbo, Mo or Trent when it was on, he's obviously capable of playing the right ball and then didn't, lots and lots of times, when last season he'd have done it every single time in his sleep -

Again, I think he was an accidental playmaker, as in Jurgen let the lads work it out themselves, it worked brilliantly, but it wasn't how he wanted to play, all our team needed was to evolve and develop our full backs play further as Baldy at City has done with Cancelo, I swear the Baldy twat reads here, he's done exactly what I was screaming out for us to do with our full backs all last season in addition to what they already did, and bring in a couple of quality midfielders who can play our pressing game, play eye of the needle balls and assist directly in the blink of an eye and who can also play the switches and balls over the top and cross the ball, some set piece ability and scoring competency would have been great too (Fabian Ruiz) and to let it evolve naturally and not force it

I think somewhere there has been a huge misunderstanding of what the word evolution means, in football terms it means evolve and further develop what you already do brilliantly, trying to change to being a tappy crappy play through teams side and throw the baby out with the bath water and bin off being the best in your face, smother the life out of you, direct, pressing, counter pressing and winning second balls side the world will ever see isn't evolution, it's devolution and it's starting over from the very beginning asking players that have all evolved together playing a certain brand of football, to suddenly play entirely differently

It hasn't worked has it

[dicko1969]

Honestly, I think we tried to change things, which may or may not have worked out with our best 12-14 available, "I think we maybe changed too much" as Trent famously said, I think most of our problems are down to that and persisting with those changes when we were battered with the injuries was just crazy in my opinion

I bang on and on about it, but switches were a MASSIVE part of our game and why we won the league, as were balls over the top from Hendo and Virgil, both playing most of our switches too, along with Trent, we've not done any of that this season.

We've never ever passed through sides, it's not our game, we don't have the midfielders to do it, Thiago isn't that type of midfielder, he's a midfielder who connects to other midfielders and forward who do have the ability to play through crowded lines, we worked the ball into good area trying to pass through sides and when there was nowhere to go, went back to Hendo or Trent and switched the play to the opposite side. Mane and Mo kept the width, always, and Trent and Robbo timed their runs from a relatively high position just our side of the opposition midfield to be found, all of that has broken down

I warned about this when I saw it happening, which was when it first started happening and here we are

Missing those big early chances as we have in 5 or 6 games is something we can't afford to do, when we're missing our automation and have no option but to try and play through sides because we've only Trent on the pitch who can play a switch

Having no viable targets for our set pieces which were worth 10-15 goals to us a season is also a massive miss

Positives for last night.
Kabak I thought was decent.
Much more confident.
Trying also long balls.
His passing was good apart 1 long ball to Robbo.
For a 20yo he looked accomplished and confident.

I'm scratching my head ... the front 3 not scoring much and hardly at all at Anfield.

It's been a horrific 3 months ...
Apart the 3 away games in London.
Where we scored 12goals in 3 if I remember.

11 games left.... I really dont see 33 points.
Nor 20 points. 15 points if lucky.
Looks like 7th to 10th position.