January transfer window/End of summer

[Insidious]

Yea we got better ‘cause we lost Coutinho???? Erm what??

Steveo

You have followed up " 'cause we lost Coutinho" with a sequence of points that are based on the idea that I said "'cause" we lost Coutinho.

Which I didn't say. This is how discussions and debates get off on the wrong foot. It's like when an abortion discussion happens and one person says "healthcare" while the other person says "so you like killing babies".

It's part of how some of our chats in the past (and some of those you have had with the likes of Balinkay) get long-winded, cyclical and spiky.

To re-iterate, our improvement was not as a direct result of losing Coutinho. I'm saying that we ended up becoming a better side collectively even though we lost a player at his peak and thus we are not in desperate need of a shadow of his former self, aka I believe we'll be absolutely fine without him, which is not the same as saying "we are better off without him".

Hopefully I've been clear on the importance of a subtle-but-important distinction without sounding condescending, as that's not the intent.

[LEGS]

Coutinho was a quality player for us I didnt want him to go but you cant turn £140m down we totally had Barcelona.

Coutinho is done as a top level player but no doubt could still perform for someone else and he has bad knees now.

We wont sign him nor should we he is another like Dembele/Traore who we keep getting linked with

[miller0863]

Just asking whether Coutinho would have stayed on the line behind Karius because you intimated we would have won the Champions League Final in Kiev had he stayed.
We lost that because of Klopp and Karius.

Klopp for picking him and Karius for being anything but a top level keeper and effectively chucking 2 in his own net. As good as Coutinho was, I think it’s a stretch to suggest we would have won had he been on the pitch for the Final.

[Steveo]

Steveo

You have followed up " 'cause we lost Coutinho" with a sequence of points that are based on the idea that I said "'cause" we lost Coutinho.

Which I didn't say. This is how discussions and debates get off on the wrong foot. It's like when an abortion discussion happens and one person says "healthcare" while the other person says "so you like killing babies".

It's part of how some of our chats in the past (and some of those you have had with the likes of Balinkay) get long-winded, cyclical and spiky.

To re-iterate, our improvement was not as a direct result of losing Coutinho. I'm saying that we ended up becoming a better side collectively even though we lost a player at his peak and thus we are not in desperate need of a shadow of his former self, aka I believe we'll be absolutely fine without him, which is not the same as saying "we are better off without him".

Hopefully I've been clear on the importance of a subtle-but-important distinction without sounding condescending, as that's not the intent.

Ok but I took this

Indeed.

We let go of Coutinho Classic and went on to become an even more effective unit.So it seems a bit mad that we would go back into the shop to try and pick up some Caffeine free Diet Coutinho Lite with no added sugar.

To mean that not having Coutinho ( we didn't let him go either - we made a fooking mint outta him ) equated with us becoming a better team. This is certainly what you seem to be alluding to in a rather convoluted (use of Diet Coke added sugar... somewhat sugar-coated) kinda way.

Not sure what talk of spikey convo's with Bali has to do with any of it.. Bali made plenty of equally strange and IMO misguided comments which I picked up on - numerous times.

You seem to be a nice guy Sid and you write lot's - sometimes and on this topic in particular I think you are making no logical sense

[Steveo]

Just asking whether Coutinho would have stayed on the line behind Karius because you intimated we would have won the Champions League Final in Kiev had he stayed.
We lost that because of Klopp and Karius.

Klopp for picking him and Karius for being anything but a top level keeper and effectively chucking 2 in his own net. As good as Coutinho was, I think it’s a stretch to suggest we would have won had he been on the pitch for the Final.

I made a suggestion. You think we would not have won in Kiev. Obviously nobody knows either way but I believe we would certainly have had a far bigger chance - that's it really.

[Steveo]

Coutinho was a quality player for us I didnt want him to go but you cant turn £140m down we totally had Barcelona.

Coutinho is done as a top level player but no doubt could still perform for someone else and he has bad knees now.

We wont sign him nor should we he is another like Dembele/Traore who we keep getting linked with

Perhaps he is done - we don't know though. He would be of more use to us even as half the player we had - than Keita or Oxlade.. IMO

[miller0863]

Coutinho was pretty good pre Barcelona so I can’t argue with the fact we would have had a better chance.
However the whole team visibly wilted after Karius chucked the second one in, don’t think there was any chance after that.

[miller0863]

Maybe a loan to see how he is? A loan couldn’t hurt, unless Klopp is rejecting any thoughts of having him back because he turned his back on the club, despite Klopp’s best efforts to keep him.

[Steveo]

Coutinho was pretty good pre Barcelona so I can’t argue with the fact we would have had a better chance.
However the whole team visibly wilted after Karius chucked the second one in, don’t think there was any chance after that.

Indeed, it was a nightmare for us but an absolute tragedy for him. I will always feel desperately sorry for the lad, it effectively destroyed his career.

Salah was taken out too - rendered us more impotent - Phil might have had a big say.. who knows.

[Steveo]

Maybe a loan to see how he is? A loan couldn’t hurt, unless Klopp is rejecting any thoughts of having him back because he turned his back on the club, despite Klopp’s best efforts to keep him.

Yes - and this is the point I try to make. It was a quandary because Klopp absolutely did not want to lose him, he recognized the potential for goals from that area. The fact that it led to the squad becoming far better perhaps shows that the sale was a godsend. But it was purely those finances that allowed for it IMO.

I would have loved to have seen that peak Coutinho combining inside that great side of 2018/19. I feel we would have had too much for City - perhaps they would have wilted..