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Thread: Perceived Squad depth - requested by eggy81

  1. #1
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    Perceived Squad depth - requested by eggy81

    Quote Originally Posted by eggy81 View Post
    Sid we could do with one of your in depth threads now about our squad depth and the perception of our squad vs Chelsea city and uniteds. I’ve noticed this season that our squad has gone up in estimation vs others in top 4. We’ve 4 better midfielders than any of uniteds and all our defenders are better. Even ox and naby look good options at the moment. Wondering can we even sign a better midfielder for our system than we have already in January.
    Evening all! I wanted to pick up from here - I'm conscious that we can't have "super-threads" anymore so the forum doesn't melt and that's totally fine as Gary has explained why, but I'll throw up our squad and pass a couple of comments on things like depth, what might be next or whatever as it comes to mind, to spark a little chat and see where we go. There's also a character limit on posts so I won't do the squads of Man City/Man United/Chelsea as part of this initial post to do with space, but that may come up a post or two into the thread.

    Goalkeepers

    Alisson - 29
    Kelleher - 22
    Adrian - 34
    Karius - 28

    Not a bad bunch at all!

    Alisson is arguably the World's best keeper. Excellent in multiple departments.
    Kelleher is a wonderful deputy - so wonderful in fact that he may wish to seek first-team action at another club and I certainly couldn't blame him. Hopefully can stay with us - contracted to 2026 I believe.
    Adrian is seemingly a good trainer and liked by all. One to upgrade upon perhaps in time, with an opportunity to do so on the horizon, as his contract will run out. Allegedly on £58,000 a week or so, which is quite a bit considering how little we utilise him, let's be honest. Could be one that continues to get "just one more year" contracts, but I'd love us to seek a young keeper as an alternative.
    Karius is someone we'll all be glad to see the back of. That performance in a certain Champion's League final (in a season where we did reach the final and hoover up a lot of points in the League with him as first choice, to be fair to him) absolutely ruined him and he needs to go - which he will, this Summer. £60,000 per week off the wage bill thank you very much.

    Centre-backs

    Van Dijk - 30
    Matip - 30
    Konate - 22
    Gomez - 24
    Phillips - 24

    Are we the most blessed in this position in World Football? Perhaps.

    Van Dijk when on peak form is untouchable and is everything that our youngsters at Academy level should try to emulate, though you can't buy Oak Tree genetics.
    Konate has absolutely enormous potential and at his age could be a top centre-back for 10 years with us if (and only if) he fulfils that potential, though early signs are promising.
    Matip does an excellent job when fit and available and might be the most over-looked of our players by opposition fans. A better injury record would be ideal, admittedly.
    Gomez is the most over/under-rated centre-back around depending on who you ask. His record beside Van Dijk is pretty excellent. Rumoured to be growing restless about a lack of playing time which could create an interesting problem/opportunity should we decide to sell.
    Phillips if we're honest is here for absolute emergencies (otherwise why buy Konate?) and was signed up to protect his transfer value. I'm torn as to how intelligent that was for us and how un/fair it will prove to be for him, as he is earnest and deserves playing-time at a lower-mid table side for me. Watch this space.

    Full-backs

    Age of this group is excellent.

    Robertson - 27
    Tsimikas - 25
    Trent - 23
    N. Williams - 20

    Robertson can blow hot and cold in terms of his attacking prowess, but the physicality, covering of space and capacity to wind up the opposition should never be taken for granted in what was a problem position for us for about 15 years.
    Tsimikas has been one of the most welcome surprise packages going, with everyone being a bit blown away by the quality of his delivery. Has that De Rossi characteristic of having dogged determination and boundless energy despite looking like he is dying from a hangover. Seems very popular in the dressing room.
    Trent is a unique beast of a full-back and is loved for obvious reasons. Defensive lapses yes, but this is a give-and-take scenario with his defence-disrupting crosses being so worth it. At 23-years old he is younger than 04/05 Gerrard and is continuing to improve, which is exciting.
    Neco Williams is a promising full-back, but I think it's fair to say that if we isolate individual positions around the squad in terms of individual players, then the drop in quality from Trent to Neco is one of the biggest gulfs in class. It's no disrespect to Neco, but it's fair to say we wouldn't love it if Trent was injured for 10-19 games, though being such a system-oriented team would make up for some of these shortcomings.

    (Not sure where I am on the character limit here, so will submit this, then start typing the midfield and attack as a new post)
    Your hobbies are rollerblading and you're also a bit of a rat-hound? Steel Wool
    Sid knows he's crazy and he likes it. Balinkay

  2. #2
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    Midfielders

    Henderson - 31
    Thiago - 30
    Fabinho - 28
    Keita - 26
    Jones - 20
    Ox - 28
    Milner - 35
    Elliott - 18

    A quality group, age and injury worth keeping an eye on in some facets.

    Henderson is a truly wonderful Captain and comfortably in the first three/four picks when forming your midfield three - his role makes him a pretty automatic starter. I'd be inclined to rotate him more to help prevent some niggling injuries, but he contributes a lot in terms of leadership, ground coverage, energy, instructions. He looks great at the moment - capable of top quality assists and the (somewhat due) screamer that his position doesn't allow him to take on as often.
    Thiago - bloody brilliant when on it, but needs to be on it more - with his slower recovery rate from injury and historic injury record suggesting we won't ever get full seasons out of him. Here until 2024 so just enjoy the good bits.
    Fabinho's aggression in the tackle whilst keeping it clean means he can absolutely boss the job of screening our back four at times, though occasionally is over-eager, losing us possession. Not often enough for it to terribly trouble me though, especially as opponents still have to get past Virgil+another and then somehow beat Alisson. Brazilian and a great age, theoretically in his prime.
    Keita seems to be clicking at the moment and thus we're seeing more of what we bought him for. In terms of age profile, I view him as being the "bridge" between our 30+ midfielders and the younger lads, along with Ox. If we can get Keita steadily working, he's a very valuable member of the 1/2/3/4/5/6 players (numerically) you want covering a 3-in-midfield. A starter when on it, which he certainly is at the moment.
    Jones has flaws, but is a confident lad with quality touches, a good physique and is bloody hard to shake off the ball. He comes in for more stick than most of our mids and whilst he isn't perfect, it's worth reminding people that he is just 20 - I certainly have no issue with his quality as 5th/6th choice for example and with continued development he will climb those ranks, I'm sure of it.
    Ox is a player I like a lot. A really professional lad in interviews and has undeniable quality. Like Keita, in terms of age, he acts as a bridge between the oldest and youngest midfielders. I do question having a squad with three midfielders in it with injury records that aren't great and of that three (Keita, Thiago, Ox) he is arguably the one that "brings it" the least often - though admittedly he can't show his best from the bench. I'm relatively open to the idea of selling him if it helps fund a more injury-resistant player in the 22-25 age bracket, but would be genuinely sad to see him go.
    Milner we all adore, even if we see little chinks in the armour being made by Father Time - his recovery pace certainly isn't there now. The experience he will have passed onto the other lads throughout his time here is invaluable. His contract is due to run out and whilst part of me is tempted by the prospect of one more year, the £150,000 a week he is on could also be used for someone younger. Whatever way the club calls it I will content myself with, though I'd love to see this absolute champion of a player depart ways with us rather than see him start to decline. I really hope he is part of our coaching set-up in future as he is just a wonderful professional.
    Elliott is a contentious call as some may seem his as a right-winger still, but Klopp was starting him in midfield ahead of some seriously good players at the beginning of the season, so he's a midfielder as far as I'm concerned - probably lacking the pace to be one of our forwards anyway. I love Elliott - he's a real student of the game even at the foetal stage of his career. Could have a huge future with us if he comes good in terms of his injury.

    Forwards

    Salah - 29
    Mane - 29
    Firmino - 30
    Jota - 24
    Origi - 26
    Minamino - 26

    Six for three spots - four are top drawer, would love a fifth.

    Salah is simply the world's best forward in terms of the right here, right now. Form does vanish, so best not be berating the man when he inevitably hits a slump in his career. I hope he retires with us.
    Mane is another beast of a player. Does blow hot-and-cold (which he did at Southampton too) and I'd love to see him recapture the sort of form that saw him make a mug of Neuer, but he'll get back there.
    Firmino has been making the attacking side of our team tick for a long time now. Indeed, this is his seventh season with us, which is some going. A pressing Monster. If he maintains this form, we're all besotted. Has been lacking in the goals department and 20/21 was not a good season for him. The age of our forwards means that we need to succession plan a bit, though he still has a couple of top years left in his tank - though it may literally be a couple, whereas you feel Salah has 3-4.
    Jota looks like the first bit of succession planning for our front three and is a good age at 24 in terms of not needing to worry about a replacement. Pressed very well against Man United, showing that he is really "getting" football under Klopp more and more, plus we all know he is capable of purple patches. Has the odd game where he doesn't do much, but provided they're in the minority, happy days.
    Origi is a good player and can be lethal in the box, but being a square peg in a round hole isn't great for him (or us) and at 26 I feel he should be finding a club that can make more effective use of him. He's somewhat behind the "first" four as well and I'd probably sacrifice him and Minamino to get a fifth quality player in for rotation that is a better fit (a "second Jota" if you will) for the sake of quality in depth. Really like the lad and he has cult hero status forever, but we have outgrown him somewhat.
    Minamino I have touched on, but just seems to be lacking in the physicality required for the League, was unfortunate to join such an alien culture during a January window and has been one of the unluckiest lads in World Football for me in terms of integrating into a successful club with a very different language only for the Pandemic to happen. My heart tells me to give this lad every chance, but we simply can't afford to be starting him ahead of the likes of Salah/Mane/Jota/Firmino and thus, like Origi, I'd happily sacrifice him at a time where age is still on his side so he can get playing time somewhere else and help in part to fund a replacement.
    Your hobbies are rollerblading and you're also a bit of a rat-hound? Steel Wool
    Sid knows he's crazy and he likes it. Balinkay

  3. #3
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    nice one

    thanks for that

  4. #4
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    Some of that I find reasonably accurate, some not, although it would require greater depth in your analysis of players, posting a thread like this detailing in your reasoning the qualities a player needs in specific roles/positions in our team and/or in the Premier League to be a top player to explain and correlate why you rate some of the players as you do might be helpful
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    Some of that I find reasonably accurate, some not, although it would require greater depth in your analysis of players, posting a thread like this detailing in your reasoning the qualities a player needs in specific roles/positions in our team and/or in the Premier League to be a top player to explain and correlate why you rate some of the players as you do might be helpful
    Had planned to get into a bit more nitty gritty as I go - probably do bits and pieces posts to slip into it - iffy internet connection, construction work in the House, dying PC - didn't want to be half-way through typing out a Monster and get blue-screened eggy81 I think also wants some stuff about rival teams so when I started I tried to keep it short and snappy in case I ended up doing 4-6 squads as I never know how much I'll type when I start - sometimes it just pours out of me.

    Also largely there to promote discussion, so everyone is very welcome to add their own analysis, differences of opinion etc.

  6. #6
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    Would be interested in your views on defensive and attacking merits of our midfield players.
    Also, do we have any defenders who could fill in as DM, do you think?

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    The next iteration of the side should see Fab, Ali and Robbo as fhe senior leaders.

    Alisson/Kelleher

    Trent/Neco?
    Gomez/Philips?/Konate
    Robbo/Tsimi

    Midfield and attack is where the investment should be directed

    Jones Fab Keita Ox?

    Elliot Taki? Jota Origi?

    The ? Marks could move on mostly for the benefit of their careers and playing time.

    Klopp probably will bring through some younger talent at the club.

    But it's pretty clear imo where we will need to add in the coming years.

    The squad presently isn't far off of competing for all the trophies in a season.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by redebreck View Post
    Would be interested in your views on defensive and attacking merits of our midfield players.
    Also, do we have any defenders who could fill in as DM, do you think?
    Gomez, Konate or Tsimi could feature in midfield, Tsimi in a milner lcm role.
    But it's hard to gauge players before you see them in action.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by redebreck View Post
    Would be interested in your views on defensive and attacking merits of our midfield players.
    Also, do we have any defenders who could fill in as DM, do you think?
    We've got Tyler Morton to fill in at No6 if needed
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    We've got Tyler Morton to fill in at No6 if needed
    Jurgen just said "we need to get him in the gym some more, if he gets a body he is an incredible footballer" get him in the gym them Jurgen, without him overdoing it obviously, looks a fantastic prospect

    Get him in the gym with Mo and Mane, that pair KNOW how to build a body for playing top level football with
    Last edited by Nineteenx; 27th October 2021 at 10:17 PM.
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

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