Sort the left flank out Jurgen

[Kev0909]

In fairness, we've never played with a strong midfield (creatively speaking).
Its all about the flanks.

It was telling how often Robbo was free and unmarked vs westham. I'm sure tactically they were told to make sure the right side with salah/trent had more bodies.
He did absolutely nothing with all that space - cross were mishit or blindly kicked somewhere around the box.
If i'm not mistaken, the first goals counterattack which led to the corner was due to him passing his cross right to a westham guy.

I don't really agree, I think 4-5 teams have better midfield than us which isn't acceptable when we want to win the league.

We have such great players like Salah, it's a big fucking let down, that we can't put some real money into it.

I miss the best midfield in the world, and gerrard with a top midfielder or 2, salah would be even better, and the rest of the team, at the moment it's dogshit, i'd say even west ham was better than us in midfield for christ sake.

[LEGS]

We are scoring almost three goals a game we clearly have decided to be more open this season.

Last year around Dec-March a number of people were moaning as we werent creating or scoring which was true this year so far is different.

Now one thing we dont do enough of is cynical fouls take a yellow and then regroup that is what City/Chelsea do we dont unless Milner or Thiago are around.

Salah is our best player but we have scored two in the last three games so we dont need him to score every game we just need to make better defensive decisions.

West Ham game we were unlucky in many ways as first 8 mins two BIG calls went against us lets just say if Cresswell walks we dont lose that game.

[CCTV]

Manes personal performances can't be understated too.

Inconsistent as fook and not as ferocious in racking up tackles and intercepts as he was in previous seasons.
Looks like he's playing cold sometimes

[Nineteenx]

All I suggested was that apart from the obvious lack of cover for CB we needed more from Midfield. Well this season we have even less.

Status quo, when our midfield was the best in the league, most people here wouldn't accept it and didn't even see or recognise it, because they have been conditioned to have a certain perception of what midfielders do or should do, not through the media, but because that's how they have been used for all their lifetimes, until Jurgen

Our midfield was brilliant, needed more of the players to be able to play the switch, medium balls to release full backs and forwards and the occasional ball over the top, but because they were used in our set up by Jurgen in a completely unconventional way to what everyone's perception of what makes a midfielder good is, pretty much all of you always slated it

Steveo, we had 2 attacking mids v Brighton, how did that work out for you, teams are trying to outnumber our 3 in midfield and because our 3 don't work in unison and aren't all on the same page, aren't all as good as Hendo at reading the game and taking the right positions, we're getting played through far too easily.

What we've got this season is what you and the vast majority of everyone else here moaned about having when we were the best team in the world for 2 seasons, but you couldn't accept how brilliant our midfield 3 were, because they weren't playing in the way or used in the way your status quo perception of how a midfielder should play can't get past

Same thing with Fab, for how we play and played at our best, when we were the best team in the world for 2 seasons he was by far the weakest link in the entire team whenever he started, because he wasn't on the same page as all the other midfielders and other players positionally or aware, but to everyone here, he's the dogs bollocks because he goes charging into tackles, usually sprinting 20 yards (well his version of a sprint) to get there leaving a gaping hole where he should be making him a liability, but to most of you he's our best mid - Now that doesn't make sense, apart from when you consider the status quo, in your status quo, he is the midfielder who best fits your perception of how a midfielder should play and what they should do, the positional part of it, reading of the game, anticipation and appreciation of where the danger might be, you don't care about that, it's all about blood and thunder

Steveo, our issues this season are because Jurgen has tried to give you and everyone else who have the best team in the world for 2 years wasn't good enough for exactly what they whined for and wanted, and what you all wanted, well, let's be honest, it isn't as effective and it isn't good enough - Be careful what you wish for

[LEGS]

We arent as solid Nineteen as we were that is clear to see.

I think on balance you cant keep playing exactly the same way for 4-5 years as we will get found out as you like to mention other teams will have videos too.

City have changed this season according to stats last season they were 16th in putting crosses in the box this year I think they are in top 3.....its working for them and its probably catching teams out as others werent expecting it.

You can win playing both styles but nothing has changed since ive been watching you have to be very good in both boxes.

[Steveo]

Status quo, when our midfield was the best in the league, most people here wouldn't accept it and didn't even see or recognise it, because they have been conditioned to have a certain perception of what midfielders do or should do, not through the media, but because that's how they have been used for all their lifetimes, until Jurgen

Our midfield was brilliant, needed more of the players to be able to play the switch, medium balls to release full backs and forwards and the occasional ball over the top, but because they were used in our set up by Jurgen in a completely unconventional way to what everyone's perception of what makes a midfielder good is, pretty much all of you always slated it

Steveo, we had 2 attacking mids v Brighton, how did that work out for you, teams are trying to outnumber our 3 in midfield and because our 3 don't work in unison and aren't all on the same page, aren't all as good as Hendo at reading the game and taking the right positions, we're getting played through far too easily.

What we've got this season is what you and the vast majority of everyone else here moaned about having when we were the best team in the world for 2 seasons, but you couldn't accept how brilliant our midfield 3 were, because they weren't playing in the way or used in the way your status quo perception of how a midfielder should play can't get past

Same thing with Fab, for how we play and played at our best, when we were the best team in the world for 2 seasons he was by far the weakest link in the entire team whenever he started, because he wasn't on the same page as all the other midfielders and other players positionally or aware, but to everyone here, he's the dogs bollocks because he goes charging into tackles, usually sprinting 20 yards (well his version of a sprint) to get there leaving a gaping hole where he should be making him a liability, but to most of you he's our best mid - Now that doesn't make sense, apart from when you consider the status quo, in your status quo, he is the midfielder who best fits your perception of how a midfielder should play and what they should do, the positional part of it, reading of the game, anticipation and appreciation of where the danger might be, you don't care about that, it's all about blood and thunder

Steveo, our issues this season are because Jurgen has tried to give you and everyone else who have the best team in the world for 2 years wasn't good enough for exactly what they whined for and wanted, and what you all wanted, well, let's be honest, it isn't as effective and it isn't good enough - Be careful what you wish for

For a start we were not the best team in the world for 2 seasons - you can claim it all you like but even Klopp is on record for disputing this fact even for a single season. "We were never the best"

We were superb in 2019 for long spells almost taking a title and wining number 6 - (many Istanbul styled miracles - escaping the group and Barcelona 4 nil after 3:0 away) and in 2020 we were mentality monsters in the league - supremely solid at the back and efficient at taking 3 points. Not able to get anywhere in domestic cups or past Atletico in the CL that year. We were out of gas by February with the title all but won. If that means we were the best in the world for you then so be it. It doesn't mean that for me or seemingly for Klopp.

Also 19 The midfield was certainly less integral than either the back line OR the attack. It is that midfield that IMO needed better quality. We had one who I rate at top-class - Gini - he has gone and as yet we have no suitable replacement. Despite Salah's superhuman feats, we have been struggling to put teams away even from strong positions... This is the midfield failing IMO.

Just accept your view and mine are different and move on.

[Nineteenx]

For a start we were not the best team in the world for 2 seasons - you can claim it all you like but even Klopp is on record for disputing this fact even for a single season. "We were never the best"

We were superb in 2019 for long spells almost taking a title and wining number 6 - (many Istanbul styled miracles - escaping the group and Barcelona 4 nil after 3:0 away) and in 2020 we were mentality monsters in the league - supremely solid at the back and efficient at taking 3 points. Not able to get anywhere in domestic cups or past Atletico in the CL that year. We were out of gas by February with the title all but won. If that means we were the best in the world for you then so be it. It doesn't mean that for me or seemingly for Klopp.

Also 19 The midfield was certainly less integral than either the back line OR the attack. It is that midfield that IMO needed better quality. We had one who I rate at top-class - Gini - he has gone and as yet we have no suitable replacement. Despite Salah's superhuman feats, we have been struggling to put teams away even from strong positions... This is the midfield failing IMO.

Just accept your view and mine are different and move on.

The midfield was entirely integral, they provided the platform for our full backs and forwards to play as high as consistently and for our defence to not have to do very much defending at all - We play a pressing and counter pressing game, not my idea or opinion, we have always played a pressing and counter pressing game under Jurgen, the midfield is absolutely integral to that because, and surely Mr Steveo who knows a thing or two about this game, you of all people must understand that if the positioning of one or two of our CMs is way off in that, it renders the press of our forwards, our others midfielders and both full backs entirely useless and that obviously causes significant problems

On the topic of this thread, now, this early in the season teams have already worked out to leave their right side a little open and stifle the hell out of Mo and Trent on their left and pick up all our players and let Fab have the ball, waiting to nick his lame pass or pressing him to nick it and create a 3 or 4 v2 against our 2 CBs, how many more superhuman feats do you think Mo is going to pull off with Jurgen and the staff and the poor recruitment making it that easy for teams?

On Gini, he was absolute class, together with Hendo and the pair of them together were head and shoulders above all our other midfielders, there is a player who they both papered over the significant flaws of their game and baled out time and time again and that is Fab, he's played an absolutely massive part in giving away at least 5 goals this season and we've only conceded 11, nearly or over half the goals we've shipped are down to him not being good enough and yes, he is absolutely brutally exposed without Gini alongside him - Interestingly enough, when he was subbed at 3-1 v West Ham, we made a remarkable recover and should have drawn the game from there even at 3-1 with over 70 minutes played

[CCTV]

For a start we were not the best team in the world for 2 seasons - you can claim it all you like but even Klopp is on record for disputing this fact even for a single season. "We were never the best"

We were superb in 2019 for long spells almost taking a title and wining number 6 - (many Istanbul styled miracles - escaping the group and Barcelona 4 nil after 3:0 away) and in 2020 we were mentality monsters in the league - supremely solid at the back and efficient at taking 3 points. Not able to get anywhere in domestic cups or past Atletico in the CL that year. We were out of gas by February with the title all but won. If that means we were the best in the world for you then so be it. It doesn't mean that for me or seemingly for Klopp.

Also 19 The midfield was certainly less integral than either the back line OR the attack. It is that midfield that IMO needed better quality. We had one who I rate at top-class - Gini - he has gone and as yet we have no suitable replacement. Despite Salah's superhuman feats, we have been struggling to put teams away even from strong positions... This is the midfield failing IMO.

Just accept your view and mine are different and move on.

Agree on 2018/19, it was our best seasons performance, our best pl defensive record under Klopp and in the league, doing enough to win a league title that city won. Won our 6th CL title.
19/20 was an achievement season as we won the league and set the previous year right.

[Nineteenx]

We arent as solid Nineteen as we were that is clear to see.

I think on balance you cant keep playing exactly the same way for 4-5 years as we will get found out as you like to mention other teams will have videos too.

City have changed this season according to stats last season they were 16th in putting crosses in the box this year I think they are in top 3.....its working for them and its probably catching teams out as others werent expecting it.

I watched City last season and this, they haven't changed (Edit: From last season), they started putting more crosses in last season, obviously got better at it from last season to this and having their forwards pull onto the opposition full back or CB their side when it's a 3 and moving them to create the space for the crosser, another tactic (one of many) I wanted to see in our evolution detailed in the 'I'm backing Robbo and Trent' thread Baldy seems to have adopted very successfully, at least one top manager reads here

We didn't need to change midfield, all of what we needed to do are all things City are now doing that were in the thread mentioned. More versatility from our full backs and creating more situations and position for them to deliver and better manipulation of space for one another between our full backs and forwards

Formation wise, the real difference between ours and theirs is that both their LCM and RCM get forward more, although one of them will quite often sit in various passages of play alongside their No6 though and both will cover the No6 position if their No6 ventures forward ahead of them - The player in their No6 position when they are attacking does NOT get too far advanced when both their No8's and full backs are ahead of them or even when they have the 3 at the back because Walker doesn't get forward that much, except when it's apparent there is precious little chance of a counter, Walker sitting or being parallel with their No6 for the most part being the other main difference.

They started using switches last season, which they rarely did prior to last season, City have made various changes since our title winning season, to play a lot more like we did in 19-20 in quite a few respects, they have adopted quite a few of our very best traits and evolved on the interaction between their forwards and full backs to create space wide as I wanted us to as the obvious next step in our evolution, all at the very time we dropped them and/or sought to try and play more like the City side we destroyed in 19-20

[Nineteenx]

City look better coached and organised than our rabble have this season too, a lot more discipline and understanding of where they have to be in their press and in their responsibilities whoever starts, especially in always having one of them in the No6 position and in a proper No6 position you will always see Hendo in, but not Fabinho, their seamless rotation of their midfield 3 exactly the same as ours was in that 15P 15W spell in Fabinho's absence in 19-20, another aspect of our game I wanted evolved and developed, although that couldn't have involved 'favourite' Fabinho so was a non starter for Jurgen, they've copied absolutely everything

When they attack on their right, Walker is most frequently not involved and is usually about half way between their No6 and CBs and where the attack is, in a good counter press position or to assist their defence with any counter should their attack breakdown.

When they attack on their left, quite often having switched the play to their left as we used to so frequently, their left forward will frequently make a run to take the full back or RCB away to give Cancelo space to cross and will also be wide when the attack is on the other side unless there comes a point in it at which the ball looks destined to be played across goal, all exactly what Mane used to do for us - It is absolutely shocking how much of what we 'used to do' and 'needed to evolve' City have taken to be so much better equipped to win games and stretch opposition sides as we used to without the need to over commit and how far fewer goals they're conceding as a result I might add, despite their CB's not being as good as ours