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Thread: Winter / Summer Windows, what / who do we need? Na

  1. #71
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    Dec 2012
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    This Klopp era should be similar to the paisley Shankley ones where we’re wining everything we can. A lack of ambition from the owners and some supporters accepting 4th place as a trophy is ridiculous.

    We have a great manger and a great group of players, but lacking proper investment. Not looking at buying the league, but ffs man.

    Just as 19x says, I hate drawing and most certainly hate losing. Sort it out ffs before the big oaf has his break and we’re stuck with Hodgson coming out of retirement to save us.

  2. #72
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    Jun 2008
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    Shankley & Paisley didnt come up against two clubs with oil money though.

    You only have to look at United they cleaned up as they had the pick of players coming to England now they have to compete with Chelsea/City.

    Nothing wrong with having a model like ours we are pretty much living within our means.

    The only way we get what you want is oil or state money taking over that is the reality.

    I havent settled for 4th place I want to win the league every year but we wont do that this season.

    When Klopp goes it will be mega hard as I look around and being honest I dont see many elite managers in world football.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDOC1979 View Post
    This Klopp era should be similar to the paisley Shankley ones where we’re wining everything we can. A lack of ambition from the owners and some supporters accepting 4th place as a trophy is ridiculous.

    We have a great manger and a great group of players, but lacking proper investment. Not looking at buying the league, but ffs man.

    Just as 19x says, I hate drawing and most certainly hate losing. Sort it out ffs before the big oaf has his break and we’re stuck with Hodgson coming out of retirement to save us.
    Exactly, we have salah VVD....... some real top of the class players, then you have the midfield..... -_-

  4. #74
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev0909 View Post
    Exactly, we have salah VVD....... some real top of the class players, then you have the midfield..... -_-
    For me our midfield was the best in the league through 18-20, it was their reading of the game and playing of Jurgen's system at the time and their positioning off each other and our forwards positions to allow our full backs to attack or take equally brilliant positions off them that made us so brilliant and hard to play against. And I never moaned about our midfield, my only critique was that we needed another player in the same mould of being brilliantly astute without the ball who could play the switches and attempted balls over the top when we were positioned for them to be attempted.

    When we were at our very best, the highest levels we've ever been at, as a team, it became apparent to me that we were even better without Fab, as he didn't read it as well, play the system as well or position himself as expertly, he didn't have that understanding with Gini and Hendo they had with one another, knowing exactly where he needed to be and position himself and he still doesn't, so to improve on what we had, we needed better, I know it's unpopular, but he still doesn't have that.

    As much as the owners haven't invested enough of what's being made back into the playing staff, I actually think Jurgen has tried to evolve how we play and got it wrong. There wasn't much wrong at all with how we played for me, Fab needed to be worked with to get with the program and understand the importance of reading it and the positions he took in conjunction with our other midfielders and to improve his passing and that still needs to happen.

    How the full backs played needed to be evolved, we've seen some of that, in the balls played in from deeper from Trent against certain defensive set ups, and the balls attempted through the lines, down the line, in behind and over the top, but we didn't need to employ a more lightweight attacking midfielder to make that evolution happen, and doing that has been part of the problem. And we needed a bit of work on the forwards doing more to make space and gaps for the full backs to deliver also. Running a defender to the corner, taking 2 or 3 there, to play it back to a full back to deliver to 2 or 3 in the box. Playing on the defender to move him inside or outside to create gaps and open channels for the full backs, and again that didn't require a more lightweight, let's the positioning and press down midfielder's inclusion

    Sid was talking about City the other day, how they boringly saw games out by controlling it and their possession game, we had that in 18-20, it was just a different style to how they do it, with players using different skill sets, we'd keep it and patiently pass it around between our No6 LCM controller and CBs just the same, and our forwards, full backs and other midfielder would either make runs or keep altering their position off the runs to be in positions to be released, with a player in a position to support that and other players positioning themselves to be placed to win any second ball, and we kept making the runs and repositioning and when we were set to try one of the medium balls over the top, or switches to release either a forward or full back, as in, were it to be cleared or intercepted, we were set to win any second ball or quickly win the ball back quickly before it was played, we'd play it.

    The only thing our midfield needed was a couple more players who could do the same as Hendo and Gini and have the understanding with them and each other and of the system, who could also constantly position themselves and reposition themselves as expertly in conjunction with all the other players who were a bit better with the ball and able to play the balls to release the forward and full backs together with the further development of the play of the forwards and full backs and the movement and interactions between them to make us a bit cuter when needed, to be able to test teams and open them up and create in different ways, without really having to change the fundamentals of how we played that had proved so successful

    Now we have no width or attacking threat on our left, when we used to use the entire width of the pitch on both sides when at our peak, creating opportunities for switches to release a forward and/or full back in loads of time and space on the opposite side, or play a ball over the top which if not successful we'd win the second ball from, we don't have Gini and Hendo to use in combination who understand the system, the absolute importance of their positioning and each other so well, to improve on that we needed a third midfielder to be able to operate at the same levels of that, instead we have midfielders who can't coordinate doing what they need to at all and who don't listen to instruction on what they need to be doing and where they need to be positioning themselves.

    If our midfielders positions aren't right, then it makes our forwards positions not right and our full backs positions not right and our CBs positions not right, whether we're pressing high or sitting deeper, the midfield, as much as it was maligned by most here, was the key to our success and to me, we've gone backwards a long way and lost sight of what worked and how to improve from there and there is perhaps an element of so many voice in Jurgen's ear while we were practically invincible, of different types of midfielders being the way to improve and perhaps he has tried to appease those voices and it's been a fucking disaster

    We have the great man for 2 more seasons after this, unless he gets back to basics with midfield and gets backed to bring in players of the right type, the same type as Gini, Hendo and Milner, but with a bit better range of passing and variation of types of passing and re-establish and build that formidable understanding and reading of the game and positioning and the consistency of it, get back to using the entire width of the pitch also, I fear we're never going to reach the heights of 18-20 again.

    Ultimately, we could have tried to evolve differently from how it has been attempted and be a far better side than we were in 18-20 and even better at opening sides up and even more solid and inpenetrable for teams to try and play through, run through or get time on the ball, but for me, whoever was in Jurgen's ear, or maybe a culmination of all those voices who knew better, we've chosen entire the wrong path and direction to try and evolve and laid to waste far too much of what made us so damned good, because it didn't looks sexy enough for some people, and it redefined the role of the midfielders in a way they just couldn't accept or understand - Shame, we could have had a period of great dominance
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  5. #75
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    Sep 2006
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    Short version of all that is, especially re midfield, most people here whined and whined and whined and whined and whined about our midfield when for me, bar fab's rushes of blood, it was brilliant at its role in the team and despite the constant slating of it by most, as absolutely fundamental to our successes as any of part of the team

    Well, what's happening now, is the product of Jurgen introducing and using more players of the type most here were whining about our midfield lacking, you know the saying "Be careful what you wish for" a big part of it also boils down to what I talk about re all things in this cunt of a society, status quo, people being conditioned to believe certain things or that things should be a certain way, for as long as I can remember, pre Jurgen, the role of midfielders has always been to contribute to the attack and score goals and get the assists and people are conformed to midfielders playing and contributing a certain way and anything else, anything different to their status quo is wrong

    Now I'm not a conformed to a status quo type person, so to me Jurgen's using 3 midfielders to support our forwards and full backs playing higher and them scoring more goals and getting more assists, more additional goals and assists than midfielders used in a status quo way would get in most teams, well, it really wasn't a problem, it was new, it worked and other than an improvement on Fab and future players with all the abilities of Hendo, Gini and Milner but with a bit better passing and variation of it, but crucially able to play the switches, medium balls to release forwards or full backs or over the top (maybe 2 more attacking mids for certain games as that was part of the set up at times) I was more than happy with it

    Our evolution should have always been improving on the abilities of the mids but making sure they had all the ones fundamental to playing the system and evolving the play of our forwards and full backs, to me we've fucked it up. and I believe the amount of constant fucking whining about our midfield from the status quo mob, because it was different and they didn't like it or couldn't accept it, has played a huge part in that

    Most of you here have got exactly what you wished for and spent even our insanely brilliant best times of late whining about, maybe you should stop whining now and like it, it's what most of you wanted
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  6. #76
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    Jun 2014
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    Would you not count declaring the outbreak of ww3 following a twitter trend as being part of the status quo

  7. #77
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    I knew 19 would lose the plot the minute Hendo got exposed. Time for Captain Fantastic to show his metal and lead by example.

  8. #78
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    Jun 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by reddownunder View Post
    Thiago was bought when it became increasingly apparent that Gini wouldn't get another contract. As a replacement it has been like bringing in Aquilani for Alonso
    But he's steadily improving. ;-)

  9. #79
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    I knew 19 would lose the plot the minute Hendo got exposed. Time for Captain Fantastic to show his metal and lead by example.
    Grow up know nothing, a team plays and has always plays a pressing and counter pressing game, 2 out of 3 midfielders run around like headless chickens not taking appropriate positions, despite both getting told where they need to be by their captain, the LCM and RCM not taking the right positions in the press to both be clse to their players and block the lines for others has a disastrous knock on effect

    It renders the press of all three of our forwards useless, it doesn't offer the positioning in midfield for the full backs to play off and time their forays forward off

    Getting exposed would be playing at No6 and letting a runner go to create 3v2's against our 2 CBs time and time and time again against Brentford, not even seeming to realise that as No6 it was his job to track that runner and that culminating in 2 goals for Brentford

    It would be, failing to go to Jesus at an appropriate time to force him to go one way into Virgil after he got past Robbo v City and going so late to Jesus very belatedly that he actually blocked Virgil from challenging him and took both Virgil and himself out of the game, allowing him to lay on a goal for Foden

    It would be failing to recognise or understand that as No6 with both full backs and o8 well in advance of you that playing Mane into trouble, then getting done, then not taking a card for your double incredible fuck up to allow Bowen to release Fornals

    I could go on, and on and on and on, I can tell you what getting exposed isn't, it isn't having 3 players outnumber and play around you because your LCM or RCM not doing knowing or getting their basic fucking positioning right also fucked your full backs positioning
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  10. #80
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    Sep 2006
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    Anyone else think it's worth putting in a cheeky loan bid for that Wijnaldum lad at PSG in January? Not getting game time and 'looking lost' apparently and we could pay the percentage of his wages that is what we were offering him
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

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