The demise part 2 - look away if you're superstitious

[Nineteenx]

I think the filthy's fans need to accept reality, Ferguson was very successful. he wasn't a great football manager however, his team's didn't play football to the level of the Liverpool teams of the 70's and 80's, Wenger's invincibles, Guardiola's CIty or Klopp's Liverpool and their dire record in European football considering they had the opportunity to reach a Champions League final pretty much every season under Ferguson bares that out

Ferguson was a Glaswegian Former shop steward, the main reason for his success was his ability to influence and manipulate his player and officials throughout the English game in the Premier League, English FA and refs association and that he had the Murdoch media machine that has got every single PM elected in my lifetime backing him throughout also

Ferguson managed to convince all those officials of his mantra "When United do well, we all do well" when the incredible rise in what broadcasters will pay for Premier League rights during the time United haven't been doing well at all, despite all those people's continued best efforts to try and make sure they did, shows it was a whopper of monumental proportions and that people in all those official bodies need to seriously reassess their belief in that mantra nd remove all those who are in their positions through having made sure it was adhered to for over 30 years as soon as possible

What all those bodies did was actually incredibly detrimental to the Premier League and English football, they tried to prevent natural market mechanisms and new clubs rising up and former great becoming also rans happening, they propped Ferguson's United up and helped them win about half of what they won under him when they weren't the best side also.

When despite their very best efforts to continue propping them up after Ferguson's departure, the Premier League has become a far more lucrative and a far better product through them not being able to and a look at the national team shows it has also benefitted immensely from the official bodies not being able to prop one club up at the top at the expense of all others and our national game as a whole through having been sold on Ferguson's mantra

All those people, all the refs, the people at the English FA, the Premier League, the media hacks, they all have a great deal to answer for in how much they have held back and set back English football for 30 years through what they did and what they continued to do

[Taksin]

I think this appointment is an attempt to break with Ferguson's influence, which is exactly what needs to happen. It means Woodward and the club hierarchy have learnt that its not just about finding the right manager, its the whole set up that needs to be functioning. Rangnick has the wisdom to rebuild the club into a position where it will know what type of manager it needs. So, he'll offer them a way out of waiting for Ferguson's verdict.

How long it takes and whether the other pieces of the jigsaw are in place remains to be seen.

[miller0863]

I see the Messiah is on the bench today, while the impregnable back four of Wan Bissau’s, Lindelof, Bailey and Telles are lining up behind an enviable trio of McTominay, Matic and Fred. Their attacking options are somewhat more laudable mind, Sancho, Rashford and Fernandes.

Wouldn’t want 7 of their10 outfield starters in our squad, not often I have been able to say that in my lifetime… if ever.

[miller0863]

Utd currently sitting in 10th place, just 3 points ahead of Southampton in 15th.

They really could do with getting something today.

[Red October]

I think this appointment is an attempt to break with Ferguson's influence, which is exactly what needs to happen. It means Woodward and the club hierarchy have learnt that its not just about finding the right manager, its the whole set up that needs to be functioning. Rangnick has the wisdom to rebuild the club into a position where it will know what type of manager it needs. So, he'll offer them a way out of waiting for Ferguson's verdict.

How long it takes and whether the other pieces of the jigsaw are in place remains to be seen.

I would agree. It's not good news for us but they need to break with Fergie. Understandable that they revere him but they will be stuck in this cycle until they clear house. Fergie came into the game in a completely different era. Things have moved on. there's no doubt he was good at what he did. From ex players he seemed to be a great motivator. I think he was very canny at seeing a good player too. Cantona being probably the best example. He built a very good team at least twice I would say. The 90s team and the 00s. He was also good at grinding out results.

Sadly there wasn't much opposition from us during most of that time. Arsenal at least stopped them a few times before Chelsea and city got money. Otherwise they might be on about 30 titles now! :-0

Having said all that lets hope the German thing backfires for them and they're relegated with a Ronaldo own goal!

[Red October]

Utd currently sitting in 10th place, just 3 points ahead of Southampton in 15th.

They really could do with getting something today.

A draw would be good for us. A win would mean Neville would be crowing about how they've turned a corner and with a few changes they'll be back on their perch. He'll probably say "see, ole was just a few tweaks away"!

[miller0863]

Yep a draw is probably the best result but to be fair, whatever the result we can draw a positive form it.

[jinky]

How is it a positive if Chelsea win. Come on utd. I hope Ronaldo gets 3

[Steveo]

Got your wish for the moment. Sancho makes it 0:1

[Taksin]

I think he was very canny at seeing a good player too. Cantona being probably the best example.

I always thought Jaap Stam was an immense signing.. and Roy Kean stood out too. When he wanted a player they were willing to pay more than anyone else was willing to. That's no longer the case.

Phil Jones also stands out