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Thread: The demise part 2 - look away if you're superstitious

  1. #21
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    Surely you must now see that your fears about their resurgence were unjustified? They have strengthened considerably since then and now they are at an all time low according to most United fans

    I am not talking about hypotheticals, I am talking about actuals. Even though they seemed to overtake us last season (in the ghost season when there were no fans in the stadiums) they had, in fact not over taken us. We are stronger. They are weaker.

    And by the way, we had Klopp last year and they had Ole last year so clearly success is not only down to the manager. A fact you seem to never concede. When I gave you a list of other factors (that might go some way towards explaining what happened last year) you made a glib joke without even conceding the point.

    When you admire their bettering of us last season itís down to investment. When you admire our advancement itís down to Klopp. There is a basic inconsistency there.

  2. #22
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    Never forget this..

    Following his retirement as Liverpool manager in 1974, Bill Shankly had to be banned from the team's training ground in Melwood by his successors because he kept showing up unannounced in search of a bit of camaraderie. He was snubbed by the board of directors, who refused to admit him to their ranks.

  3. #23
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    They are struggling because the league is pretty damned hard. Just like any other team they can lose games.. And they have lost 5 times already this season i believe. 4 more defeats and they wont even finish in the top 4 (in my opinion)
    Thats the issue.. they were winning titles with 78/82 points. Its not gonna happen now.. So they are under an hell of a lot of stress to get results.
    Leader of all..master of none..

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taksin View Post
    Surely you must now see that your fears about their resurgence were unjustified? They have strengthened considerably since then and now they are at an all time low according to most United fans

    I am not talking about hypotheticals, I am talking about actuals. Even though they seemed to overtake us last season (in the ghost season when there were no fans in the stadiums) they had, in fact not over taken us. We are stronger. They are weaker.

    And by the way, we had Klopp last year and they had Ole last year so clearly success is not only down to the manager. A fact you seem to never concede. When I gave you a list of other factors (that might go some way towards explaining what happened last year) you made a glib joke without even conceding the point.

    When you admire their bettering of us last season it’s down to investment. When you admire our advancement it’s down to Klopp. There is a basic inconsistency there.
    Success can never be ONLY or exclusively down to any manager.

    If Klopp has a budget like Norwich City what can he win? That polemic position would be nuts. But for me, the manager is definitely the overwhelming key factor as has been proven over and over again.

    Money on its own is never enough and the owners cannot charm their way to success. In the end it comes from galvanizing a group and instilling that belief. Count the managers that are serial winners. They are few and far between and they hoovered up huge portions of the trophies on show in therir respective eras

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by justme View Post
    They are struggling because the league is pretty damned hard. Just like any other team they can lose games.. And they have lost 5 times already this season i believe. 4 more defeats and they wont even finish in the top 4 (in my opinion)
    Thats the issue.. they were winning titles with 78/82 points. Its not gonna happen now.. So they are under an hell of a lot of stress to get results.
    Points are largely irrelevant from one season to another. Some years you can win 99 or 100 others the league is more competitive and you can't. That has little to do with it IMO.

    United had better teams than City did when they took 100 points. Rules change VAR comes in decisions are given more freely some seasons. Things change every season. One team beats City 2 nil then loses to Palace. football is more than points and numbers.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    Points are largely irrelevant from one season to another. Some years you can win 99 or 100 others the league is more competitive and you can't. That has little to do with it IMO.

    United had better teams than City did when they took 100 points.
    Look once you lose 5 times at its not december yet.. You have no chance of winning the league.. If the points total was 78/82. you still have some leg room to go on a winning run and take the title. You can not do that any more. Man-united are not consistent enough. They will always lose games.. and yes point totals are valid.teams are winning the league by large points now.
    Leader of all..master of none..

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by justme View Post
    Look once you lose 5 times at its not december yet.. You have no chance of winning the league.. If the points total was 78/82. you still have some leg room to go on a winning run and take the title. You can not do that any more. Man-united are not consistent enough. They will always lose games.. and yes point totals are valid.teams are winning the league by large points now.
    Obviously losing 5 games by late November is awful, that is clear and Ole sacked. But you seem to be saying United only ever got a certain number of points and that they cannot ever break that ceiling. Unless I have you wrong?

    Seems unfair to compare United winning with a strong Chelsea and a Strong Arsenal and a decently Strong highest-ranked team in Europe Liverpool under Rafa and comparing it with the totals City and ourselves have managed in what was a IMO a far less competitive time at the top end.

    let's see how many points Chelsea get this season.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    Obviously losing 5 games by late November is awful, that is clear and Ole sacked. But you seem to be saying United only ever got a certain number of points and that they cannot ever break that ceiling. Unless I have you wrong?

    Seems unfair to compare United winning with a strong Chelsea and a Strong Arsenal and a decently Strong highest-ranked team in Europe Liverpool under Rafa and comparing it with the totals City and ourselves have managed in what was a IMO a far less competitive time at the top end.

    let's see how many points Chelsea get this season.
    Always difficult to compare eras.
    Maybe it was a stronger era not so long ago.

    But this pl era has seen two superb teams in LFC and city, and a collection of premier league teams reaching the finals of the CL and EL.
    Arguably the non-top6 sides have never been stronger.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    Always difficult to compare eras.
    Maybe it was a stronger era not so long ago.

    But this pl era has seen two superb teams in LFC and city, and a collection of premier league teams reaching the finals of the CL and EL.
    Arguably the non-top6 sides have never been stronger.
    YOur point about the non top 6 could well be the case, so yes it is near impossible to compare in truth. Either way every season is different even IF the league remains the same level - competitively speaking. ASo many things can change the outcomes of so many results.

    Were we a better team in 2014 taking 84 points than we were in 1984 taking only 80?
    Last edited by Steveo; 22nd November 2021 at 01:22 PM.

  10. #30
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    Last season needs to be forgotten about it was a complete write off.

    We had like NO CBs at all plus without crowds it wasnt real something I pointed out several times last season.

    Its the same for everything which was true but you saw on the 30th minute what a crowd can do its a different game, dont believe me ask sports stars they will tell you.

    Utd did well last season I guess but again with fans they have crumbled under the pressure.

    Its ok saying they turned 33 points around...it is a fact but 99 points isnt the normal and Utd dont usually finish on 66.

    The table after 12 games shows where we are both at and they added 3 players to our 1 player.

    I think Taksin has a point about the structure of the club but to me manager is king and no chance will they find one worse than Ole.

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