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Thread: Match Thread: EFL Cup 2nd leg first: Liverpool v Arsenal

  1. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by teesred View Post
    If there had been some form of movement on that in the last 3 years we could argue but there hasn't aside from Thiago and to say he's been a disappointment is an understatement.
    Firstly, this gets trotted out every time a result disappoints. But it also happens when we play well, such as at Leicester, and the deficiency is not in the midfield but in attack. Salah missed a penalty and Mané missed an open goal. But the criticism can't take that into account - it's the midfield.

    Secondly, even if the midfield could be improved, that's not exactly rocket science to notice is it? I said at the outset that I would have liked another midfielder. Who wouldn't. But Klopp has never said he feels the midfield isn't good enough. If he believes that then he has certainly reported it internally and is probably content that the purchase schedule is reasonable (otherwise he would have made some noises to the contrary).

    We can all say x number of them are getting old now but the point is that Klopp wants those ageing players in his squad - he doesn't want to replace them. He believes in them, even if some of us don't. Plus, Elliot came in, Jones got a year older and there's a couple of youth players coming into the fray. That is 'movement on that' to use your phrase. We currently have about 9 midfielders that Klopp wants to use.

    I'm sure there are options being lined up for the future but I wouldn't bet that Klopp doesn't prefer to bring in another winger/striker before he wants another midfielder.

    The more fundamental question is whether the fans are spoilt/entitled in a way that Klopp isn't and whether the club is being drained from above. Saying things should be better is the easiest thing to say from the armchair. We've also had the absurdity of rapid flow tests disrupting the team quite badly in the last few weeks and even had the manager banned from the game, not just the touchline. As usual we have played quite admirably under the circumstances, in my opinion, and yet its all the midfield and the owners.

  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taksin View Post
    Firstly, this gets trotted out every time a result disappoints. But it also happens when we play well, such as at Leicester, and the deficiency is not in the midfield but in attack. Salah missed a penalty and Mané missed an open goal. But the criticism can't take that into account - it's the midfield.

    Secondly, even if the midfield could be improved, that's not exactly rocket science to notice is it? I said at the outset that I would have liked another midfielder. Who wouldn't. But Klopp has never said he feels the midfield isn't good enough. If he believes that then he has certainly reported it internally and is probably content that the purchase schedule is reasonable (otherwise he would have made some noises to the contrary).

    We can all say x number of them are getting old now but the point is that Klopp wants those ageing players in his squad - he doesn't want to replace them. He believes in them, even if some of us don't. Plus, Elliot came in, Jones got a year older and there's a couple of youth players coming into the fray. That is 'movement on that' to use your phrase. We currently have about 9 midfielders that Klopp wants to use.

    I'm sure there are options being lined up for the future but I wouldn't bet that Klopp doesn't prefer to bring in another winger/striker before he wants another midfielder.

    The more fundamental question is whether the fans are spoilt/entitled in a way that Klopp isn't and whether the club is being drained from above. Saying things should be better is the easiest thing to say from the armchair. We've also had the absurdity of rapid flow tests disrupting the team quite badly in the last few weeks and even had the manager banned from the game, not just the touchline. As usual we have played quite admirably under the circumstances, in my opinion, and yet its all the midfield and the owners.
    Every team has had to deal with rapid flow tests so that's a pointless argument. Like the BCD games, it's not exclusive.
    Jones and Elliott - movement in midfield isn't really what I'm getting at. Personally I feel Jones is just a squad player and a below average one at that, he's gone backwards. 9 midfielders, atleast 2 if not 3 need moving on, 2 are kids, 2 are frequently injured.

    It's harsh to pin the Leicester game on the attack, Salah especially invariably carries us. Midfield chipping in with goals occasionally wouldn't go amiss.
    Theres a difference between being "spoilt" as you put it or expectant. There are realistic expectations and unrealistic expectations. Its not an unrealistic expectation to want improvements in midfield, you are talking like it's a new issue. It isn't,it's been there for long enough. Maybe Klopp isn't bothered like you say? Who knows.

    Things could look different had the investment in the squad been in the summer or previous, we currently rely on players we signed 3 seasons ago and more. Nobody since is a reliability mainstay, not even Jota.
    We are still in all comps, that's something good but on the flip side how likely are we to win any?
    Last edited by teesred; 14th January 2022 at 06:06 PM.

  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by jozza800 View Post
    We could well end up with 80-90(ish) pts this season.

    Which would make our last 4 season's points totals 97, 99, 69 and 85(ish). Which is the outlier season in that run?

    We've been beaten twice all season and we're still in all 3 cup competitions. We've just pissed the so called 'group of death' in the Champions League. Yet the majority of the forum want to tear it all down and start again.

    We've gone through every player in the squad not being good enough at some point over the last few years. The manager getting pelters for not changing the way he plays etc.

    Have we become a little entitled over the last few years?
    Not sure what you mean by the word entitled exactly here.

    Expectations are through the roof as we've had success and have a good enough squad to compete for titles.

    Think criticising Klopp has been largely stable, its the same beefs as have been ever present about his flaws. His positives are regularly acknowldeged.

  4. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by teesred View Post
    Maybe Klopp isn't bothered like you say? Who knows.
    I didn't say he wasn't bothered. I said I had no reason to think he wasn't happy with his squad, his midfieders and the squad planning in general. If he has told FSG that he rates Jones and wants them to continue pay him substantial wages then it's not their fault if he goes on to disappoint Klopp, never mind an internet figure known as teesred, is it?

    As for the bit about covid, I didn't say we were the only ones affected, but that it has none the less affected us. It has caused problems that neither FSG nor the midfield can really be expected to take the blame for.

  5. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by teesred View Post
    All good points. I don't think we've become entitled though, I think most are just annoyed at the lack of squad bolstering which is undoubtedly required. We are involved in those competitions but personally I'd say we are unlikely to win any aside from the EFL.
    The title us all but gone but very few of any expected us to win it.
    Theres just a few elements that have now become issues that are dogging us but they have been that way for some time now, especially the issues with midfield. If there had been some form of movement on that in the last 3 years we could argue but there hasn't aside from Thiago and to say he's been a disappointment is an understatement.
    You can look at City as favourites for the league, amongst a pack of 3 clubs presently.

    Not sure you can do better than be competitive in Europe as the format of Knockout football and say around 6-8 top teams you could expect to knock each other out and then there's the dark horse underdogs

  6. #236
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    If you mean feeling entitled to win, I'd say yes we are more entitled as we have better chances of winning than before

  7. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taksin View Post
    I didn't say he wasn't bothered. I said I had no reason to think he wasn't happy with his squad, his midfieders and the squad planning in general. If he has told FSG that he rates Jones and wants them to continue pay him substantial wages then it's not their fault if he goes on to disappoint Klopp, never mind an internet figure known as teesred, is it?

    As for the bit about covid, I didn't say we were the only ones affected, but that it has none the less affected us. It has caused problems that neither FSG nor the midfield can really be expected to take the blame for.
    Obviously not, but again you have no idea that's what's happened or happening, he's not the kind to come out and say he's not happy with his midfield either. He doesn't do that directly. Even during last season's defensive issues he didn't make much noise about it.

    We are fans, we talk about issues on the pitch or off the pitch. None of us believe our opinions or theories have any influence on things.

  8. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Dynasty View Post
    Trent should have gone off early too.

    He was taking away more than he was contributing and when Neco came on (and how he played) you could really see how sub-standard his play had been all game.
    Trent was possibly showing signs of COVID.
    Does Robbo need to practice corners? Would have liked Tsimikas to play some part last night, his corners and crossing are both better than Robbo imo.

  9. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by teesred View Post
    Obviously not, but again you have no idea that's what's happened or happening, he's not the kind to come out and say he's not happy with his midfield either. He doesn't do that directly. Even during last season's defensive issues he didn't make much noise about it.
    He is indeed a man of many virtues.

    He did admit last year that the injury crisis affected us badly. He didn't feel the need to hide that. Clearly, much action has been taken in response to that crisis, some of it was short term, some of it was longer term. Probably more of it is yet to come.

    The details of all this activity is debatable in terms of its success but the point is there are no signs that I have seen that Klopp does not feel supported and at one with the various strategies being used, which would be the implication if the endless moaning on this forum was to be taken seriously.

    Maybe things don't always work out exactly as we would like, which is the basis for calling people entitled who cannot see this.

  10. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianlfc View Post
    I think getting our knickers In a twist over a 0-0 first leg semi final, is a bit much .
    Chill the fuck out lads !!
    That’s a bit silly Ian - this is not about one game and your own recent posts show it. This is about where we are at and headed as opposed to where we could have been.

    People see what is going on and most of them on here don’t even wear knickers

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