Match Thread 16/01/22 Brentford

[Steveo]

This is the other way this logic doesn’t work.

We smashed Man United 5 nil away from home recently. You, funny enough, said it wasn’t a reflection of how good we are. We were, in the eyes of Steveo, not that good.

Football is so complex. Things change from one game to the next. If they didn’t, there wouldn’t be any surprises. You can’t just take a number like 4-1 and expect to run it through the computer in some kind of reliable manner.

Brentford have been genuinely admirable in so many ways this season. That’s not to say they are wall to wall invincible. Obviously they are operating on lesser resources than us but my belief is there is always the potential to exceed expectations and they’ve done that well this season.

Yes - but the logic in suggesting that for Hendo "at home to Brentford should be a pretty good platform to do better than against the better sides" . . seems pretty sound. Didn't say he WILL do better simply that it should in theory be a game where he isn't so stretched. Or do we believe Brentford are as tough an opponent as Leicester City, Arsenal or Chelsea? I certainly don't.

I was accepting the fact that he had a better game v the Bees at Anfield than against Leicester away Or Chelsea away or against 10 Arsenal men at Anfield.

Results between teams are results and do not always reflect the play - Look our Champions League final v Spurs. Look at the Super Cup final V Chelsea both games some have argued we were second best - in footballing terms - but we won.

I understand why people like to sing the praises of Brentford but they are mirroring many Championship clubs on entry to the Prem.

[Steveo]

Not sure what on earth the United game has to do with this really. We beat them 5 nil and we, IMO, were not close to our best as a team - didn't need to be either - their defence was a total shambles. Salah took full advantage ruined them with a hat trick and an assist - just go watch the game again and see it. But, to be balanced they had good chances too, including the chance to go ahead. They were shocking but again we are discussing what happened rather than the platform before a ball is kicked. Going to United in almost all cases will be tougher for our midfield than playing Brentford - especially so at Anfield.

Also the point on their wider form stands - losing 10 games and conceding 4 goals to Southampton is an indicator of a mid table team at best. A team we should 'in theory" have more chance of dominating at Anfield than the Chelsea's Arsenal's and Leicester Cities of this league.

We can drone on and on about it but we all know it is true.

[Taksin]

Yes - but the logic in suggesting that for Hendo "at home to Brentford should be a pretty good platform to do better than against the better sides" . . seems pretty sound. Didn't say he WILL do better simply that it should in theory be a game where he isn't so stretched. Or do we believe Brentford are as tough an opponent as Leicester City, Arsenal or Chelsea? I certainly don't.

I think Brentford away was a much harder game for us than Leicester away. That is to say, we couldn't work out how to deal with them. We struggled with that yesterday for a while too. So every game has different challenges. When we play a big team like Chelsea, the adrenaline is running much higher and every small decision and play is amplified in intensity - that's one reason you can't just say "Hendo should be using this as a platform", as it's a different level of game for the whole team. He is limited by what the team is doing, and even what the crowd is doing.
It's complex.

Yes so every game is a platform in some way for every other game. I just think the way you are criticising Henderson is bogus. He is either in form or not - his class, value to the team and favour in Jurgen's eyes is not in question. If he's not in form he is either ageing and about to retire or he is using this game as a platform for the next one. And his form is in some way a function of the form of the team.

It's not like he goes out there thinking 'I must prove myself against Brentford', is it? He's close to retirement. I'd imagine he is hoping to get the cogs and wheels of the Jurgen machine whirring and to be a part of that.

[Steveo]

Some opinions on the skipper over the last few games prior to Brentford

V Chelsea .

TIA

Jordan Henderson – 4

He appears to have a case of the Momo Sissokos, post-eye injury. In other words, the intent is there, but it’s all a bit reactionary and the first touch is basically a clearance.
Really poor on the ball again and, yet again, was caught doing absolutely nothing and appealing a vague offside instead of tracking the runner as Pulisic ran past him for 2-2.
The captain needs to rediscover his form in possession at the very least.

The Guardian : Jacob Steinberg

Jordan Henderson The Liverpool captain was often unconvincing in possession. Lacked control but offered plenty of running. 6

V The Foxes

TIA

Jordan Henderson – 4
His attempts on goal became a running joke with the commentators. Two volleys and one half-volley never looked like going in.
Watched and admired Dewsbury-Hall as he fed Lookman for the goal, and was as slow as Trent in terms of trying to cover for the defence in this key moment.

Was subbed midway through the second half as Liverpool chased a goal.


90 Min

Jordan Henderson (CM) - 6/10 - A bit too eager to channel his inner Steven Gerrard by shooting in the first half. Pressed into misplaced passes by Leicester at times.

V the Arsenal. Independent



Jordan Henderson, 5.

Failed to provide the spark Liverpool were desperate for. Tidy on the ball but did nothing of note with it. Liverpool were crying out for Thiago in midfield.

TIA

Jordan Henderson – 4
It was one of those nights for the skipper and the midfield as a unit, and Arsenal going down to 10-men only highlighted the shortcomings further.
A brilliant pressure on Ramsdale aside, Henderson was culpable of turning into trouble and one such instance led to Van Dijk being clattered but, thankfully, the Dutchman is a brick wall and it hurt Martinelli more.
Alongside Milner, did not provide the attacking impetus needed against the low block and a Reds outfit that were without two of their focal points up top.


These are all very fair comments on the Captain yet some people felt it was Jota (leagues second highest scorer) that had a point to prove..???


Interesting.

[Steveo]

I think Brentford away was a much harder game for us than Leicester away. That is to say, we couldn't work out how to deal with them. We struggled with that yesterday for a while too. So every game has different challenges. When we play a big team like Chelsea, the adrenaline is running much higher and every small decision and play is amplified in intensity - that's one reason you can't just say "Hendo should be using this as a platform", as it's a different level of game for the whole team. He is limited by what the team is doing, and even what the crowd is doing.
It's complex.

Yes so every game is a platform in some way for every other game. I just think the way you are criticising Henderson is bogus. He is either in form or not - his class, value to the team and favour in Jurgen's eyes is not in question. If he's not in form he is either ageing and about to retire or he is using this game as a platform for the next one. And his form is in some way a function of the form of the team.

It's not like he goes out there thinking 'I must prove myself against Brentford', is it? He's close to retirement. I'd imagine he is hoping to get the cogs and wheels of the Jurgen machine whirring and to be a part of that.

This could be an indication of the limitations of our midfield - as exposed by your own logic.

The fact is we need Hendo - no disputing that fact but IMO we need him due to a LACK of better quality available options. In the main this season he has been average. Some decent displays usually when Salah is firing and some well below par ones too. V Brentford - he was a 6 out of 10.

[Taksin]

This could be an indication of the limitations of our midfield - as exposed by your own logic.

The fact is we need Hendo - no disputing that fact but IMO we need him due to a LACK of better quality available options.

Our midfield has limitations, as does every area of the field. We do not have unlimited resources.

The grown ups can accept that is the way reality works and don't start throwing around accusations when we don't get what we want.

[Steveo]

Our midfield has limitations, as does every area of the field. We do not have unlimited resources.

The grown ups can accept that is the way reality works and don't start throwing around accusations when we don't get what we want.

What accusations are you on about? The accusation that Henderson was not the MOTM?

OR are you using this as way to talk about the owners YET AGAIN?

[ianlfc]

Steveo , A days work would kill you 🤣🤣

[jozza800]

Have to agree with Steveo, he's been way below his best over the last few weeks. But it's just form. He started the season really well but has faded a little (as have a few others)

He's still criminally underrated by a lot of our fanbase.

Though he is approaching that point where we need to seriously think about a long term replacement. I can see him doing the James Milner role in a few years time.

To me we only need 3 new players to freshen things up. 2 new midfielders and a forward.

Fab
NEW
Henderson
NEW
Thiago
Elliott

With Jones and Morton to fill in and continue to develop.

Salah
Jota
Mane
Firmino
NEW
Minimino or Origi

With Jones or Elliott able to fill in out wide.


We're sorted at GK, CB and FB for the next few years.

[Steveo]

Steveo , A days work would kill you 🤣🤣

Haha - Funny bloke Ian as always..

Seriously speaking I have some compasionate time off mate. Sadly my wife has breast cancer - she isn't reacting well to her chemotherapy. I have had lot's of domestic stuff to do lately but she sleeps lot and with both kids at school it affords me blocks of time with little else to do.

I can always not bother if you prefer.