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Thread: Is world war 3 about to kick off?

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    Yes, same happened with Bojo and Farage.

    You said:
    That's called hearsay, and it's a cornerstone of propaganda. "Siding with nazis" - that's propaganda. He's Jewish ffs.
    ------

    He has sided with Nazis, Azov are nazis.
    They have nazi symbols on their uniforms, they use nazi slogans and numerology.
    Ukraine has a murky enough history, from the holdomor through to killing Jews as nazi ss.

    The US house of representatives stipulated against them for that very reason.
    Several years later they have Nato accidentally posting nazi symbology donning freedom fighters.
    Can you just forget I ever mentioned the Jew thing? It has literally nothing to do with my argument. It was a throwaway comment of exasperation, designed to show the absolute absurdity of the suggestion that Zelensky shares Nazi beliefs.

    You seem to have read something along the lines of "he's Jewish, therefore it is impossible for him to x, y, and z". That is not an assertion I have ever made.

    The thing about propaganda is that it doesn't have to be false. It can be factual. It's just a matter of how you present those facts. When people put out the narrative that he "sides with Nazis", that is propaganda designed to make people think he personally shares Nazi ideology. You can be selective with the facts you present to people in order to make them jump to irrational conclusions. All I'm saying is that's what's going on here. "Siding with Nazis" is far too simple a phrase to describe the big picture here. And since "side with" is a phrase very commonly used to mean "agree with", it muddies things even further. I personally think it's irresponsible to spout it, regardless of how technically correct you can show yourself to be.

    Also the USA/NATO are slightly more independent bodies with more clout and less reliance on other nations than Ukraine, so this idea that because Nato did a thing, therefore it's a moral constant throughout the globe is just wrong for me.
    Last edited by Mike Lad; 15th April 2022 at 01:44 PM.

  2. #142
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    Propoganda is inventing antisemitism claims against a political party who dare to justly criticise the Israeli Gov (UK allies) for their breaches of international law and illegal occupation of Palestine and their act of genocide which are not different from what Russia are doing in Ukraine
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  3. #143
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    I believe in the news I hear from sky regarding Ukraine. It is sad. I do not think we have seen news reporting like this before. So much mobile phone stuff. It is horrific and tragic. All wars are tragic. This war and all wars need to stop but I do not see an end. Putin from his point cannot be seen to lose. That is dangerous. We will be back to a cold war that is much colder than the cold war that was before. More money spent on nuclear weapons than ever before. We need the world to come together to sort out climate change otherwise many islands will be submerged and food supplies will be jeopardised and there will be millions of transient refugees and regardless of where you live you will be affected.
    And people need to stop this cleverness of knowledge of world affairs via spurious internet links and acknowledge this. Call me naive . It is the truth.

  4. #144
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    The sinking of the Russian flagship is the biggest embarrassment since their naval defeat to Japan in 1904/5. Remember reading about it in school.
    Does not bode well for how Putin will react.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima

  5. #145
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    One thing about the 'civilian targets', all the weapons the west have been arming Ukraine with and deploying drone strikes themselves also, do people think that the Ukranian fighters were stood out in the open with these weapons with a big sign saying "Over here" they'll have been hiding in civilian buildings, using them as cover, snipers and rocket launchers used on Russian forces from there, such things are inevitable in such a conflict

    If Ukranian forces have been using civilian buildings as cover, which they will undoubtedly have been doing, the invading forces and going to target any building they are taking fire from
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  6. #146
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    We all have our favourite news sources, often ones which confirm our own bias. It is hard to find an unbiased news service, and they have generally become far more 'tabloidy' in recent years. They have an agenda.

    (I confess I have never watched Sky News as I dismissed it as Murdoch's TV version of the S*n when it was launched, that's my own bias.)

    The British media talk about 'propaganda' as if it is purely the work of dastardly Johnny Foreigner but the news we receive is slanted and biased too. Sure there is fake news on the internet but there is also truth where the mainstream media refuse to go.

    It is the 40th anniversary of the Falklands War and interesting to look at the old news coverage - propaganda - and attitudes to so-called "war crimes". The truth about these old conflicts is still coming out so I doubt we are getting the truth about Ukraine.

    And as for 'civilian targets', the West should know full well about that after our own recent invasions on foreign soil. Twas always thus.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lad View Post
    Can you just forget I ever mentioned the Jew thing? It has literally nothing to do with my argument. It was a throwaway comment of exasperation, designed to show the absolute absurdity of the suggestion that Zelensky shares Nazi beliefs.

    You seem to have read something along the lines of "he's Jewish, therefore it is impossible for him to x, y, and z". That is not an assertion I have ever made.

    The thing about propaganda is that it doesn't have to be false. It can be factual. It's just a matter of how you present those facts. When people put out the narrative that he "sides with Nazis", that is propaganda designed to make people think he personally shares Nazi ideology. You can be selective with the facts you present to people in order to make them jump to irrational conclusions. All I'm saying is that's what's going on here. "Siding with Nazis" is far too simple a phrase to describe the big picture here. And since "side with" is a phrase very commonly used to mean "agree with", it muddies things even further. I personally think it's irresponsible to spout it, regardless of how technically correct you can show yourself to be.

    Also the USA/NATO are slightly more independent bodies with more clout and less reliance on other nations than Ukraine, so this idea that because Nato did a thing, therefore it's a moral constant throughout the globe is just wrong for me.
    You've made an inference from a statement, and then argue the statement you made an inference from is propaganda because you disagree with that inference you made from it.
    I disagree with this argument strongly.

    NATO posted Ukrainian pr and deleted it after the Internet complained about the nazi symbols on their kit.

    The de-nazify claims of Putin, on a very surface level seem more reasonable than not as a result of pro-Ukraine pr - that was problematic.

    Your argument, is yeah there might be Ukraine pr with nazi symbols on their kit. But it doesn't mean Zelensky agrees with Nazi ideology. That's correct.
    Perhaps he's just happy to use them as they've been active. Perhaps other interested partners are happy too.

    For others I'd suspect the more natural reaction would be...
    Yeah they've been there from the start and before Zelensky, accredited with lots of activity against ethnic Russians.
    Or,
    What the fuck is going on, why are the good guys at nato posting their good guys&gals in Ukraine with Nazi symbols on their kit?

    Zelensky was elected as his platform resonated, he's largely failed to deliver.
    Corruption and conflict continued, relations with Russia worsened.

    Putins propaganda is allegedly his de-nazify claim. Groups who have been running amuck since the pro-EU/NATO revolution, donning nazi symbols.
    The other is that German & Yank led EU/Nato expansion poses security risks to Russia. I'd say that is a reasonably well founded claim.

    In contrast, perhaps biased by the amount of content I see from the west, it appears as though propaganda is more a western issue.
    More generally there has been a lot of RussiaBad messaging.

  8. #148
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    That sinking of a battleship that size has not happened since the sinking of the Belgrano in the Falklands war. Incidentally I thought that incident was cruel and unnecessary.

  9. #149
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    Scary stuff from these lunatics at the World Economic Forum....Humans are now 'hackable' animals and 'free will' is a thing of the past.....Their 'Great Reset' aint for the good of what they call the '90% of useless eaters'....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvGGqJgQOoo

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martyboy View Post
    Scary stuff from these lunatics at the World Economic Forum....Humans are now 'hackable' animals and 'free will' is a thing of the past.....Their 'Great Reset' aint for the good of what they call the '90% of useless eaters'....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvGGqJgQOoo
    The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State–a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values–interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people.
    Mussolini/WEF

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