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Thread: Your team v Chelsea (FA Cup Final)

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    Yes, but all those meeting have been a 1-2 in midfield, not a 3, a 1-2, which is a lot narrower than the 3 is will be today and the 1 in those games hasn't had the tools to release our full backs or forwards beyond their 5 strung across midfield, although this is the first game it is a 5 in a 352, in the other meetings it's been a 343 from Chelsea
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1634186/MatchReport/England-FA-Cup-2021-2022-Chelsea-Liverpool

    Average positions from the fa cup win

    3421 for chelsea with their right side of midfield pinned back by our left/Diaz

    4231 shape for us
    Navy playing Hendos role with Mane and Diaz, Salah furthest forward the 1 playing rwf

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1634186/MatchReport/England-FA-Cup-2021-2022-Chelsea-Liverpool

    Average positions from the fa cup win

    3421 for chelsea with their right side of midfield pinned back by our left/Diaz

    4231 shape for us
    Navy playing Hendos role with Mane and Diaz, Salah furthest forward the 1 playing rwf
    No it isn't, we play lopsided, we've played lopsided for a long time, our playing lopsided works because it creates natural movement and it buggers a lot of other teams up who try and play symmetrically because it throws them out of their balance

    If you look at the player positions it shows more of a 2-4-2-2 formation, with Mo and Diaz most advanced Mane and Naby centre a little deeper, Robbo and Trent making a four with Hendo and Thiago and Virgil and Konate the 2
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  3. #103
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    It wasn't a flat 3 in midfield, or a 1-2.

    We can argue about the shape a little.
    A 244, fine, a 2431 fine, 2422 sure.

    Looking at the positions a 4231 where our 3-1 isn't orthodox, seems most apt.
    Chelsea are also lopsided but again 3421 the best fit.

    The fullbacks are in a back four. The just get up and down the pitch a lot. Thiago is tucked in alongside Hendo in the middle.
    Keita having the ZZ/Hendo role.

    Taking the four (our fullbacks and double pivot in midfield), its a 3-1 thereafter ahead.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    It wasn't a flat 3 in midfield, or a 1-2.

    We can argue about the shape a little.
    A 244, fine, a 2431 fine, 2422 sure.

    Looking at the positions a 4231 where our 3-1 isn't orthodox, seems most apt.
    Chelsea are also lopsided but again 3421 the best fit.

    The fullbacks are in a back four. The just get up and down the pitch a lot. Thiago is tucked in alongside Hendo in the middle.
    Keita having the ZZ/Hendo role.

    Taking the four (our fullbacks and double pivot in midfield), its a 3-1 thereafter ahead.
    Diaz is marginally further forward, and not sure how they maps average positions as they often don't look accurate, but in the game it was very apparent he was mostly further forward than Mane and Keita and quite often Mo

    What I mean by a midfield 3, our midfield 3 is although RCM is usually further forward, all 3 press and counter press as a 3 when Hendo plays which to me makes them a very clear midfield 3, rather than a 2 and a 1, that means No6 and LCM are in a 2 sometimes - I've had a look at some of their other match reports from that site, and in a few there is a very pronounced deeper central mid when Fab plays

    Like here against Villareal

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1633955/MatchReport/Europe-Champions-League-2021-2022-Villarreal-Liverpool

    Whilst i think that however they map average player positions needs improvement and can be misleading, this Villareal positions paints a perfectly clear picture of what I'm talking about and how it actually looks when Fab plays No6, sitting in an area much deeper, central, in front of the 2 CBs not affecting or playing an active part in the press or counter press

    So our 3 doesn't operate as a 3 in terms of pressing and counter pressing, Fab sits in front of the back four a lot, not affecting the game unless something comes in his area if that helps you understand what I mean - Thiago of late has been distorting the average positions by continually dropping deep when the ball goes from Alisson, either FB or CB to Fab deep, he's started almost instantly dropping to take the ball off Fab because Fab isn't very good with it

    Edit: That (Thiago persistently instantly dropping) creates it's own issues, because it then means Trent and Virgil don't get on the ball in their playmaking capacity as frequently, Robbo doesn't get on it to drive it forward as frequently, Matip doesn't get on it to drive the ball forward as frequently - It pretty much disrupts a lot of our mechanics of how we play at our best which is why I made the 'Designated playmaker' thread, because we don't need one and it is disruptive, detrimental and counter productive to try and force our having one
    Last edited by Nineteenx; 17th May 2022 at 07:51 AM.
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  5. #105
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    Also, it isn't a 4231 CCTV also, because it suits you to, you're allowing for the distortion of player positions who move up and down the pitch a lot with Trent and Robbo - You are not making this allowance for Diaz who moves up and down the pitch a lot also, and because he tracks back deeper than the others, it his putting his true position as deeper than he was - The ZZ role was a true 10 centre, roaming left and right, we don't have a player playing that position and certainly not any of our midfielders, the closest player we have to playing that position is our No9, always

    You continually try and make our shape into something it isn't and make comparisons to other sides that have players operating in very traditional positions that are actually playing a 4231

    Mo being advanced further forward on our right doesn't make him a 1 in a 4231 and also as detailed the positions of Diaz who is playing equally as far forward as Mo in a lot of our attacking phases now as Mane used to is distorted because of how much he gets up and down- as you rightly point out for Trent and Robbo, but omit for Diaz as it suits how you want to see it

    Chelsea were 442 for good periods of that game too - Again how the average positions pan out as some players get up and down and around the pitch more is misleading - It's only really accurate for games like Palace v City for example, because Palace stat in their shape and defend the same way the entire game, their positions are almost all true - Chelsea actually went through numerous formations in spells of the match as they often do

    In fact, except for park the bus teams, for the purposes of looking at how they set up to stop a more attacking side and specific players in that side, average player positions don't give an accurate representation of actually player positions for most games, because of the distortion
    Last edited by Nineteenx; 17th May 2022 at 07:44 AM.
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

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