Reply With QuoteGood post,well said.....Originally Posted by faridtoxteth
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First Team
I think the booing was fine. People from Liverpool remember full well that the right wing of the British establishment tried to instigate a 'managed decline' for our city. To diminish our great city, for political reasons, because it was seen as a socialist enclave. I would see Jurgen Klopp as a socialist by the way, which is why he gave the very intelligent answer when asked about this.
Pantomime booing is exactly right. It has had the effect of drawing attention to the fact that we are not all monarchists, but it is also harmless , doesn't hurt anybody. Not like throwing a flare into a crowd of supporters for example.
Personally I am indifferent to the monarchy. Although some of them obviously are utter bastards.
Musician
Good post,well said.....
First Team
Well im in agreement Farid.
None of this booing gets headline news when England fans do it at EVERY game or even boxing matches.
First Team
England fans that break into Wembley by the 100s at the European championship final.
Break in being an understatement
Cleaning up the Scots since the 13th century
First Team
Agree, good points. There was a social media post going round that said "If you're more offended by scousers booing the national anthem than you were at the Queen paying 12m for her nonce sons accuser to keep quiet you need to have a word with yourself ".
Lol.
Public Enemy #666
From The Independent regarding the booing of The National Anthem on Saturday...
Opinion: This is why Liverpool fans boo the national anthem and this is what would stop it (The Independent)
The contrast between Boris Johnson and Jurgen Klopp could not be starker. The Liverpool manager would make a great statesman. He is honest, takes responsibility, cares about people in worse situations than himself and does his best to contribute to a wider society.
The prime minister is the polar opposite.
When Klopp talks politics, it makes sense. When Johnson pontificates about football, it’s more of the same bluster that has characterised his entire career. On Monday, according to certain sections of the media, Johnson “slapped down” Klopp because the 54-year-old suggested it might be worth at least exploring the reasons why Liverpool fans booed the national anthem and the Queen’s grandson before the FA Cup final on Saturday. A spokesman said the prime minister disagreed with Klopp and called the behaviour of the supporters a “great shame”. It takes some fairly deranged spin to see this as a slap-down. Klopp probably hasn’t even noticed that he’s supposed to have been put in his place.
Like Klopp and Johnson, those who booed the anthem and those who were angered by the jeering are unlikely to find common ground. Will there ever be a time when Liverpool supporters embrace the patriotic experience?
The prime minister’s spokesman talked about shame, an emotion Johnson knows little about. He hasn’t any. Or empathy. The Spectator’s attack on Merseyside when under the 57-year-old’s editorship in 2004 is well known. The editorial column said that the people of Liverpool “see themselves whenever possible as victims, and resent their victim status; yet at the same time they wallow in it”. The article went on to repeat lies about Hillsborough.
What is less well known is Johnson’s supposed mea culpa in the next edition of The Spectator. Headlined “What I should say sorry for”, the piece was written from “a cold, damp three-star hotel in Liverpool” after the old Etonian was ordered to travel north to apologise by Michael Howard, who was then the leader of the Conservative Party (and a Liverpool fan, much to the embarrassment of many Kopites).
“Operation Scouse-grovel”, as the author describes it, is as obscene as the previous editorial. Johnson doubled down. He wrote: “Whatever its mistakes of facts and taste, for which I am sorry, last week’s leading article made a good point: about bogus sentiment, self-pity, risk, and our refusal to see that we may sometimes be the authors of our misfortunes.”
Almost every week Liverpool supporters hear the echo of the words of the man who holds the highest political office in the UK. “You killed your own fans.” “Always the victims.” “The Sun was right, you’re murderers.”
Is there a more “bogus sentiment” than becoming emotional about a national anthem? The royal family are the cornerstone of the class system. The idolisation of a dynastic institution that is completely distanced from ordinary people is bewildering for a large proportion of Liverpool supporters, especially those who have a close-up view of the growing poverty in the UK. The Fans Supporting Foodbanks initiative was founded outside Goodison Park and Anfield – it often gets overlooked that Evertonians are on the receiving end of anti-Scouse invective, too. Supporters of club after club come to Merseyside and rejoice in songs that mock poverty. Some Chelsea fans were chanting about hunger on Saturday. The Liverpool end booed institutional, inherited privilege. Guess which one the nation was outraged by? That was two days before the governor of the Bank of England warned of “apocalyptic” rises in food prices.
Hunger is at the centre of the historic perception of the people of Liverpool. The port, once known as “Torytown” and “the second city of the empire”, first fell out of step with the rest of England after the Potato Famine in the 1840s. Millions of starving Irish landed on the banks of the Mersey. Many stayed. The “othering” of Liverpool stretches back to the mid-19th century.
What does this have to do with football? A lot. The word “Scouse” is an insult that was reappropriated by those it was used against. In the poorest areas of Liverpool a century ago, the malnourished residents – who were the children of immigrants and who mainly identified as Irish – relied on soup kitchens and cheap street vendors for food. What they were served was Scouse, a watery stew. Scouser was a pejorative term used to mock the poorest. When “Feed the Scousers”, echoes around stadiums it is expressing a deep folk memory that is imbued with anti-migrant and anti-Irish sentiment. Those chanting it may not be conscious of the history, but the driving forces for their behaviour can be traced back down many decades. Nowhere else is poverty sneered at in this way by outsiders. No one sings “Feed the Geordies” or “Feed the Mancs” even though other places have much more deprived areas. No wonder citizens of Liverpool are triggered by the chants.
In these circumstances, it is hard to make a case for Scousers to do anything more than boo the national anthem. And then we get to Hillsborough. Britain should still be in a state of uproar about the 1989 disaster that led to the deaths of 97 people. Senior policemen and high-level politicians lied about what happened, covered up the mistakes of officials and threw the blame at innocent supporters. The national press, by and large, amplified the establishment narrative or failed to provide adequate scrutiny of the authorities. A substantial percentage of the British public still will not accept the findings of the longest, most exhaustive inquests in the country’s history. To cap it all, the policemen responsible for the mass death and the cover-up were acquitted of any wrongdoing – even after some of those individuals admitted their culpability in legal settings. Now the biggest miscarriage of justice in the nation’s history is being reduced to football banter. What a country. Play that anthem again so we can all join in.
The FA got off lightly, too. The ruling body held a semi-final at a ground that did not have a safety certificate. Tottenham Hotspur fans had a near miss eight years earlier on the same Leppings Lane terraces where the carnage occurred in 1989. For those whining that Abide With Me was disrupted, the FA did nothing to abide with the bereaved and survivors of an avoidable catastrophe at one of their showpiece games.
The events of the weekend illustrated just how toxic the attitudes towards Hillsborough have become. Family members of the dead were abused heavily on social media by trolls who used Saturday’s events as an excuse to harass those who have fought, in vain, for justice. And we don’t want to hear any complaints about Scousers not showing respect. The booing is a cry for justice, for equality, a howl against hunger and poverty. It is depressing that so many in Britain cannot hear that. Klopp heard it. Johnson never will.
First Team
Booing the national anthem is very different to booing a politician. I don't think it makes sense, personally
First Team
Thanks for posting that article Justincred. Pretty educational.
Taksin..where are you from mate? I think it's great that Liverpool have a fan base that is worldwide, and I don't have any sense of superiority or prejudice that I am from Liverpool and some fans are not. But sometimes it makes a difference. This might be one of those times.
First Team
The article is a good one. It's staggering how that absolute fuckwitt us the PM after all the things he's said in the past. Leopard's don't change their spots.
Hes a full cunt and all of his cabinet are too. There's no argument.
First Team
I'm from Liverpool, farid.. I've always hated politics, which is why I don't think like most of my Scouse family on these matters. Objectively it is possible to see that socialist politics have not been the best thing that ever happened to the city, nor will they save the souls of its inhabitants, despite the fact that so many people seem to fall back on that position. I drove past the Liver building on Sunday evening and was struck by its stunning glory. No socialist city council would ever dream up something so worthy of pride.
The whole point of our constitution is that the monarchy represents the unity of the country and the commons is split between two ideological positions. There are people in Liverpool who vote Tory, even if they are a minority. They should be allowed to do so. Many of them would have died for Queen and country during the great wars. They didn't die for Boris or for Jeremy Corbyn. We have something that unifies the country that is above politics. Many, many more people died in the wars than died at Hillsborough, it is worth remembering.
You can call it the right wing establishment if you want and you are of course free to be a republican, but my own view is the loss of distinction between politics and the monarchy is a dismal mistake. The Tories are currently assuming the identity of American style Presidential statism- as are Labour by the way. When that process is complete, all we will have left is the ideological division defining everything. And I personally am sick of it.
And the behaviour of the police is one of the problems in the Hillsborough case. The police are pushed around by politicians, including the ones that the people of Liverpool vote into power. We've just had two years of police snooping around arresting people for having a cup of tea on a country walk or having a student party. They are slowly becoming a political weapon. That is not the result of anything the Queen has done. And I think this country probably had the least political police force ever formulated, all things considered. That's changed. When you boo the national anthem, you are booing the one refuge we have from political division, dragging it down into the mire so that there is no longer anywhere to escape from it. If that's what you dream of - best of luck with that project.
For some of these reasons and more, that article above is a bit confused in my opinion.
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