The Thiago thread

**Daffydd** · 17th May 2022, 07:48 AM

Thiago Alcantara shines in Liverpool midfield evolution

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61282478

**Nineteenx** · 17th May 2022, 08:08 AM

Except for he's still making the play for Bayern and everyone still needs to sit down and discuss what and where they want the ball for Liverpool so he can deliver that

The problem with hacks is they don't understand football - I can look at any youtube of Thiago at Bayern, which I only did recently, and on doing so it was immediately apparent to me, because of the positions and patterns and types of passes, that he is still making the play for Bayern, demonstrated most pertinently in the ball he played to Trent v Tottenham when he should have put one on a plate to win the game, but the ball he played wasn't for Trent, it was for Lewandowski or Muller

The other issues is, and why we don't need a designated playmaker who tries to dominate with the ball, when Fab gets the ball deep from ALisson, either CB or FB Thiago has now started instantly dropping deep to take the ball off him and to try and dominate, well, that doesn't help us, it detracts from our greatest strengths over being blessed with several players who collectively help make the play in different ways

So, in short, if Thiago persistently drops to take the ball off Fab, Trent doesn't get on it to make the play, Virgil doesn't, Robbo and Matip don't get on it to drive the ball forward - These things are all huge parts of the mechanics that make us so successful and how we have become so successful -

Hacks don't understand the game, they see a few absolutely wonderful passes, it is beyond their understanding of the game they're unfortunately not the right wonderful passes and that Thiago trying to dominate the ball is counter productive to us playing at our very best

Not having a pop at Thiago, fabulous player, but the conversations between all our players, coaches and analysis team to get the very best out of Thiago and all our players need to happen - I want all of our players to be successful, I would love him to have these conversations and start using his incredible ability with the ball to play the right wonderful passes for OUR players and to realise we have other players who are absolutely exceptional in their contributions in making the play, whether it's with their passing or driving the ball forward breaking lines and creating an overload and that him trying to dominate everything inhibits those players and our variations and elements of being able to fashion a goal from anywhere on the pitch in so many different ways from so many different players

**Nineteenx** · 17th May 2022, 08:30 AM

I remember talking quite a lot last season about how much we missed Virgil's playmaking ability from deep and Matip driving the ball forward to create an overload and make a PTB team player have to come out and disrupt their lines and Matip's long diagonals too - Most people here agreed with it

If you honestly cast your minds back to the start of the season and most of the season until the last 4 or 5 games when Thiago has started trying to make all the play, everyone was ecstatic (well except Doc with Matip's drives forward

) that we had those elements back in our game - They started disappearing again as though those players weren't available to us again when Thiago recently started to try and constantly dominate proceedings and the ball

Those things are part of our mechanics and variation, those things are part of how we successfully overcame park the bus and other sides successfully s ofrequently, with Virgil he would unexpectedly drop a back to front ball from deep over the heads of defenders camped on their own 18 yards box for one of our forwards or a left to right long diagonal from deep to release Mo or Trent to create - Robbo or Matip would break the lines by driving the ball forward creating an overload

Can no-one else see that having one midfielder trying to constantly dominate the ball and make the play isn't a good thing

**ianlfc** · 17th May 2022, 10:04 AM

Take a day off for fucksake.

**justincredible** · 17th May 2022, 12:20 PM

Or the rest of the month even...

**redebreck** · 17th May 2022, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by CCTV

I don't view those two as the same either.
It's the combination of the two, for the role.

Operating in tight spaces I'd add just a little more, it's having they eye for a pass where others don't see it and executing it. Talking about the final third when it's packed.

Bobby at his best is gifted with perception, to see players and the smallest of gaps - sometimes needing a pool players skills to complete the pass.

Wonder if anyone at the club has considered training Bobby to take up a midfield role, going forward!?

**Kev0909** · 17th May 2022, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by redebreck

Wonder if anyone at the club has considered training Bobby to take up a midfield role, going forward!?

I don't think he's physical enough

**Nineteenx** · 17th May 2022, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by ianlfc

Take a day off for fucksake.

Don't shoot the messenger

**Taksin** · 18th May 2022, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Nineteenx

I don't expect you to believe that either by the way, i totally get that it sounds like something from a science fiction film, I can assure you, it's very real

I don't doubt these things are real, or at least partially real, 19. They no doubt give you interesting insights into football. The reason I give you pushback is you seem to have no concept that any of it could be inaccurate. These things seem to be going on in your head automatically, and yet you have no criticism of them, from the part of yourself that is distinct from them.

We forumites do have some criticism of your data output. That's because we disagree with you on certain things, such as how effective Thiago is. You make an interesting point about how his style was suited to Bayern more than Liverpool. I can take that on board but it looks to me like you're stuck on an insight that doesn't apply to all situations at all times.

I'm not watching Thiago as some kind of imbecile who can't perceive patterns. I've been watching football a long time - the patterns I pick up and focus on are different to the ones you do. The fact that I may be neurotypical is neither here nor there. I see things very differently to for example Steveo a lot of the time (more differently than I do to you in many ways) and that's because our brains work differently or maybe our personalities are just different.

I'm dyslexic as it happens and that lends itself to complex systems thinking - something I've been working in for thirty years. That way of understanding things is diametrically opposed to autism but doesn't mean it is inaccurate. The problem I see with your presentations on here is that you are stuck in the assumption that everything you say is objectively true and there is no other insight that might shed some light on the situation that may even cause you to reconsider. You just bludgeon away, assuming everyone will eventually agree with you. And you also take it personally when they do, further muddying the waters.

So, as a mate, I try to point that out. You would probably be happier if you could respect other views, even if they disagree with yours. You might even learn something. I'm happy to say I've learnt things from reading your posts.