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Thread: The Thiago thread

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    I absolutely do see the huge benefit he adds, I get very frustrated as I can see it can be so much more and to my way of thinking, it shouldn't be that hard of a thing through everyone getting their heads together for us to have everything we can, the very best of Thiago in every game
    I still think your way of looking at individual players is suspect, even if you have some interesting insights. Against Inter, for example, I thought Thiago was our best player and most important for keeping our shape and integrity. But he did almost nothing. The reason being the whole team was doing almost nothing of any shape or beauty. They were really good at disrupting us.

    You can think he should have been giving certain kinds of passes but they just weren't on. The same basic fact applies to most games - his passes are a function of a variety of factors, not just what he was told to do. The whole machine is always at play.

    I see him making many important passes in games where we have some freedom. Very rarely do I think he should have passed it elsewhere. At the moment, the passes to Salah are looking different because Salah doesn't seem to be finding the the same spaces - partly because he has lost some confidence, partly because the opposition is using some tactics against him. Thiago is intelligent enough to respond to that accordingly most of the time. I actually think the whole team has run aground a bit on that problem. No reason to single out Thiago

  2. #42
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    Put it this way, I'd be a lot more concerned for the Madrid game if we didn't have him. Hes a world of difference to the midfield we had 4 seasons ago in that game where we chased shadows for much of it.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianlfc View Post
    I've just seen his penalty for the first time, that was something else . Cool as you like.
    Was convinced he would Panenka it.

    Glad he didn't. I know if I was a keeper and was up against a cool-as-you-like footballer (Pirlo, Thiago, Alonso) etc that I would take the gamble that they try the Panenka and not commit until the ball was hit.

    Obviously players like that don't chip it down the middle every time, but there are certain sorts you do expect it with.

  4. #44
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    Sure I read somewhere that Keepers would have saved an insane percentage of pens if they had just stood still. I cant remember the number.
    Something, Something, Something, Dark Side

  5. #45
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    I think he's class personally had my doubts about his fitness, but injury aside thanks to the everton scum he's been pretty fit the fact he played 120 mins the other day surprised me bigtime I feel there's more to come from him yet.

    Didn't think he was very naturally fit and wouldn't fit the system, but it appears he does and he's a bit of a warrior there's a lot more steel in that midfield now in the past we used to be a pushover.

    Going forward, we need a couple of younger class midfielders though over the next few seasons, all are getting on a bit, keita isn't good enough, neither is jones.. maybe jones will end up being good enough backup but I can't see him starting unless we go downhill and fight for 4th place again.

    Outside thiago fabinho and henderson, there isn't really much there, numbers wise yes- but quality nope. not enough for a title winning team- and champions league etc Klopps done miracles with what he has.
    Last edited by Kev0909; 16th May 2022 at 04:43 PM.
    Fabinho is the best in the world -19x

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    I don't associate those two things as a combined thing in how I view things, operating in tight spaces is something I define as being able to take the ball in tight spaces, keep it and give it to another one of our players from there, all our players are very good at that. Dribbling and beating a man is a different thing to that in my view, I wouldn't ever lump the 2 together

    I'm not saying anything about either player here by the way, just that it's interesting you view those 2 things as being the same thing
    I don't view those two as the same either.
    It's the combination of the two, for the role.

    Operating in tight spaces I'd add just a little more, it's having they eye for a pass where others don't see it and executing it. Talking about the final third when it's packed.

    Bobby at his best is gifted with perception, to see players and the smallest of gaps - sometimes needing a pool players skills to complete the pass.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jozza800 View Post
    Sure I read somewhere that Keepers would have saved an insane percentage of pens if they had just stood still. I cant remember the number.
    Yes, I think that's probably true (until it becomes common knowledge that they are the keeper who always stands still, after which point the percentage tends to drop a tad).

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taksin View Post
    I still think your way of looking at individual players is suspect, even if you have some interesting insights. Against Inter, for example, I thought Thiago was our best player and most important for keeping our shape and integrity. But he did almost nothing. The reason being the whole team was doing almost nothing of any shape or beauty. They were really good at disrupting us.

    You can think he should have been giving certain kinds of passes but they just weren't on. The same basic fact applies to most games - his passes are a function of a variety of factors, not just what he was told to do. The whole machine is always at play.

    I see him making many important passes in games where we have some freedom. Very rarely do I think he should have passed it elsewhere.
    Please don't get annoyed Taskin, what I am about to write is just matter of fact - The entirety of what you wrote is a neurotypical person assuming how someone likes me perceives something - I would never look at something as basically as you describe, not even at the first point of looking at it

    Try this, imagine your head has an incredible ability for recognising patterns, and does this all by itself, in football for instance, if has 100's of 1000's of patterns and passages of play and movement and the passes to connect them from so many positions, including where the opposition players were positioned stored in your head, it recognises what it perceives as good practice, poor practice and best practice based on the comparisons it makes between all those instances.

    Like having 100,000 people employed to do your analysis on tap, who will, when you're watching a game present you with an exact instance of the same situation to the one you're currently viewing , that's what I'm watching, every time I watch a game, how I view things really is that incredibly different to how other people do, that's what I make my comments and judgements based on, my head does all of that 99.99999999999% of it for me

    When I look at players we're linked to, I'm looking at them in our team, I have all our patterns of play 100's of 1000's of them in my head that my head stores for me, I cna see them in our team with our players and exactly how they fit or don't

    My head does this stuff for me, I know it must be hard for you to believe or understand the incredible things my head does for me that I can't take too much credit for, but that's what it does, I don't really care if you choose to believe it or not, professionals believe it and understand it and I know what it does and how it works, because it's always done it

    You cna see why I get annoye and frustrated now I hope
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jozza800 View Post
    Sure I read somewhere that Keepers would have saved an insane percentage of pens if they had just stood still. I cant remember the number.
    I remember a world cup that had loads of penalty shoot-outs with Ron Atkinson in the commentary box (was it 1990 or 1994?)
    Ron kept banging on about how he would tell the goalie to stand in the middle because 9/10 times the striker would hit the ball there.
    9/10 times he was wrong but even when the evidence was growing against him he still persisted with his view

  10. #50
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    I get the impression you might think this is somehow something that only applies to football in my mind too Taksin, I could tell you the entire process of what it has done on every sales campaign, every new experience or environment with incredible amounts of new information or experiences I've been exposed to, that would be a very long process

    How it wakes me up in the middle of the night doing it's own thing, my head burning hot, it processing all the new information, filing, sorting, rearranging, rewriting, overwriting old stuff it deems no longer useful or necessary, how that is very much it doing it's thing, not a conscious process, how I can physically feel it doing it, it's keeping me awake doing it and I'm pretty much blank with little or no conscious thought except for, "Can I go to sleep now please, are you quite finished" perhaps

    How after certain periods of what I'd describe as mass exposure to new things it does this and did this so intensely at times in the 2 or 3 weeks downtime, like it was catching up with everything it had recorded and noted as important it hadn't had time to file or sort because I had never stopped, that I practically blacked out several times as the level of its activity was rushing so much blood to my head


    I don't expect you to believe that either by the way, i totally get that it sounds like something from a science fiction film, I can assure you, it's very real
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

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