Liverpool transfers in/out and rumours 22/23 + Contracts

[Steveo]

He isn't going to slag the club off, that's different to the owners but he wouldn't do that either.
He's saying he's happy they did it the right way and wouldn't have been happy with a throw money at it attitude which is what the other three clubs he mentions do.
All managers are going to want more money and he's no different but in the end he seems to be happy with how things went. We lost out by the finest of margins to a club who cheat.

He didn't have the final day whilst Edwards was there,he had final say on some things after he went like Hendersons new contract and buying Nunez over Nkunku according to some reputable journalists.

We couldn't afford Bellingham obviously,they did try though but obviously a deal didn't happen for whatever reason most likely not being in the CL.
Maybe it's a bit strange he actually mentions him due to the fact they were actually in for him. The other two were no chance players.

Im not sure Beardsley,Barnes And Dalglish are comparable. The money involved now is a different game altogether despite those signings being records/expensive and high wages in Barnes' case. There were no ridiculous agents fees back then or certainly not like now plus the overall wages of other players may not have been anything like now across a much larger squad.

Have to agree to disagree mate.. To me he really isn't showing that he is happy about it at all. He is saying he is OK with it which is very very different. .Watch the mans face and listen to his tone and emphasis.

Not sure this needs explaining but:

Jurgen on his last night goodbye talking about the owners in a bash that they/the club has payed for...is clearly brought to us all with more than a slice of PR. Let's not be overly romantic now or too naive. Does anyone think our Jurgen would truly be that candid? Ever? On camera? The man who said he would leave IF the Club ever chose to do a behind the scenes TV series? That man believes certain truths need to be kept behind closed doors.

If you want insight - use your eyes... Read the mans body language whenever he talks about the owners. He always stops short in all and every compliment. He swings left and right - the stand..the AXA etc.. Always caveats their actions.

The man is clearly guarding his true feelings on the matter... and why? Because he loves this club. He isn't going to satisfy his ego to the detriment of the club. That is why Mainz - Dortmund and now Liverpool fans universally love the man to death.

If you want to take away something really genuine - tangible and devoid of responsibility the antithesis of any PR...I would watch Jurgen's joke - it was a kind of slipping of the mask imo... when ...on making it easier for the next manager with only a good season rather than an exceptional one...can you imagine.... if "we win a quadruple". then the laugh...

He is doing everything in his power to leave us in the best possible place. Animosity between fans and owners is something he sees as detrimental to the success of the club, which sadly is true.

But to try and use his words as justification for the inaction of the owners who are some of the few (almost all American) who are in this purely for profit is imo well wide of the mark

[Steveo]

Kenny was bought for a record British transfer fee - almost £500,000 in 1977
Beardsley was bought for a record British transfer fee - almost £2 million in 1987.
At the same time the second highest transfer in the English top flight was for John Barnes at almost £1million.

How are these not comparable to Bellingham?

We can't keep shifting the goal posts and saying things are so different now - without also accepting that things are also different because Liverpool FC is NOT prepared to mix it with the big boys and as such is totally dependent on a Jurgen Klopp type figure to win the big prizes... and EVEN when we do manage to capture the best man on the planet to do the impossible rather than back him to the hilt.... we back him poorly.

[teesred]

Kenny was bought for a record British transfer fee - almost £500,000 in 1977
Beardsley was bought for a record British transfer fee - almost £2 million in 1987.
At the same time the second highest transfer in the English top flight was for John Barnes at almost £1million.

How are these not comparable to Bellingham?

We can't keep shifting the goal posts and saying things are so different now - without also accepting that things are also different because Liverpool FC is NOT prepared to mix it with the big boys and as such is totally dependent on a Jurgen Klopp type figure to win the big prizes... and EVEN when we do manage to capture the best man on the planet to do the impossible rather than back him to the hilt.... we back him poorly.

Bellingham seemingly wasn't a cost issue, that's if the Caicedo bid is anything to go by and his wages of reports are true are not out of the clubs reach. The money could have been there,he just chose Real because of who they are or because we failed to make the top four or likely both. That's why I'm not sure why he uses him in the players he mentioned. Maybe there were costs involved like those that City paid to Haaland entourage?
Maybe he's a little bitter over that because everyone and his dog knew how much the club wanted him?

I just think there's a lot more cost involved around football club in general now, there wasnt multiple players with caveats in their contracts to be the highest paid or on par with the highest. Clubs had the power back then whereas that has shifted now.
We've broken the British transfer record enough times in the past but never attracted the world stars that say Utd and Real can/did. The three players you mention were stars in Britain or to an extent,not sure if they were courted by Real,Bayern etc. Barnes was linked to AC Milan. Can't remember if he considered it when I read his book many years ago.
Collymore,Heskey and others were all bought for big money at the time.

I'm by no means trying to be an FSG fanboy as my thoughts are similar to yours in plenty of aspects. In a way Klopp is a victim of his own excellence,they knew he could do well under the circumstances. The one thing that has always concerned me is that if we are close to spending limits now (which just seems utterly bizarre) with how the club has grown the last 8/9 years what happens if there's a long spell without silverware or out of the CL.

[teesred]

Have to agree to disagree mate.. To me he really isn't showing that he is happy about it at all. He is saying he is OK with it which is very very different. .Watch the mans face and listen to his tone and emphasis.

Not sure this needs explaining but:

Jurgen on his last night goodbye talking about the owners in a bash that they/the club has payed for...is clearly brought to us all with more than a slice of PR. Let's not be overly romantic now or too naive. Does anyone think our Jurgen would truly be that candid? Ever? On camera? The man who said he would leave IF the Club ever chose to do a behind the scenes TV series? That man believes certain truths need to be kept behind closed doors.

If you want insight - use your eyes... Read the mans body language whenever he talks about the owners. He always stops short in all and every compliment. He swings left and right - the stand..the AXA etc.. Always caveats their actions.

The man is clearly guarding his true feelings on the matter... and why? Because he loves this club. He isn't going to satisfy his ego to the detriment of the club. That is why Mainz - Dortmund and now Liverpool fans universally love the man to death.

If you want to take away something really genuine - tangible and devoid of responsibility the antithesis of any PR...I would watch Jurgen's joke - it was a kind of slipping of the mask imo... when ...on making it easier for the next manager with only a good season rather than an exceptional one...can you imagine.... if "we win a quadruple". then the laugh...

He is doing everything in his power to leave us in the best possible place. Animosity between fans and owners is something he sees as detrimental to the success of the club, which sadly is true.

But to try and use his words as justification for the inaction of the owners who are some of the few (almost all American) who are in this purely for profit is imo well wide of the mark

That's all fair comment. Like I say I'm not trying to absolve FSG of any kind of inaction,just saying he does seem happy enough with how it all went and I dare say he probably wouldn't change too much.
Another testament to what a tremendous person we have lost.

[Insidious]

Replacing Wijnaldum with Thiago was akin to, in catastrophic terms, to General Custer pissing off the neighbours of Pakistan in 1876....

Whether it worked or not (many will say it didn't and that is absolutely fine) I don't think the intention was to replace Wijnaldum with "just" Thiago.

I maintain the viewpoint that the intention was to "replace" Wijnaldum with a combination of the minutes of Thiago and the aggregate minutes of other players (Elliott, Jones etc) getting more minutes than in previous seasons. I remember doing a dedicated thread on it where I was keeping an eye on minutes - one that I didn't actually finish in the end. If I get 30-60 minutes on a very bored, very rainy day where I have absolutely nothing else to do I may even clean that up.....unlikely as I am so busy with ecological commitments at present, but you never know.

Sides had gotten used to our hard-working, high-pressing midfield that hardly scored or assisted (not a knock, it wasn't that midfield's job at that time) and was there to win the ball and facilitate the 3 forwards (Firmino, Mane, Salah) and our creative full-backs (Robertson, Trent) rather than score/create much themselves.

We sought to "evolve" by acquiring Thiago to help improve our possession game and break down low blocks (people can say in hindsight that it didn't work and that is absolutely fine, I'm saying what the logic was at the time) and by utilising midfielders that could drive forward (or pass the ball forward) and score, hence us ending up with Ox and Keita, who were meant to become our main number 8s if age profile is anything to go by, eventually replacing the likes of Henderson or Milner etc.

It didn't happen for us long-term. I'm not suggesting it did. I'm stating what the plan appeared to be at that particular time.

We had a number of players (8) being used in midfield in 21/22 (the first Gini-less season) in Henderson, Milner, Fabinho, Thiago, Ox, Keita, Jones, Elliott and it was enough for us to get -

- A League Cup win
- An FA Cup win
- 1 point behind the Cheats
- A Champion's League Final

Two different results and we win a Quad - without Wijnaldum.

He went to PSG and his form dropped off a cliff. I still maintain that we no longer "needed" him and were right not to give him the £150k-per-week that he wanted, but will happily concede that it would have been ideal to handle his "replacement" in a different fashion - despite coming close to a Quad without him. Maybe the £90m or so on Ox and Keita could be better spent, maybe we buy another player to supplement the Thiago transfer, maybe someone else arrives instead of Thiago.....infinite possibilities, all of which are past tense and thus largely meaningless.

Getting players in before a departure is something we have done before - Thiago arrives before Wijnaldum leaves and Diaz arrives before Mane leaves. Replacements needn't always be a departure followed by an arrival.

I don't think we needed to keep Gini on. The longer you hold onto a group of older players, the larger the problem becomes when several need replaced simultaneously. Something had to give at some stage and I don't think letting Wijnaldum go was an awful call - though if people want to say we could have done better in the transfer market or could have given different players more minutes or think Thiago was a poor investment, work away - we all have opinions.

[Steveo]

The truth is that maintaining and then replacing the front 3 was always the biggest issue, followed by the back line - its makeup and consistency. Midfield was never our strongest area even at our peak. The same players - except Gini - all culpable for relatively poor seasons even with the fabulous front 3 in tact.

This season again highlighting that the midfield really wasn't the most key of components. Always Klopp's blind spot.. See this season.. Significantly weaker front line and yet a far better season than last despite the integration of an almost entirely new middle PLUS an injury crisis.

The point on Gini is that there NEVER was any kind of a direct replacement at all. Anyone suggesting Thiago and others were designated to make up that part of our game is totally wrong imo. Klopp even questioned on this at the time and simply responding with talk of numerous "bodies"... deflections I always rtead as excuses for the owners.

The point about the near miss quad is absolutely correct for everything EXCEPT for the fact that without Gini in 2020/21 there is quad attempt - NO CL football at all in 2021/22 as he played an instrumental role in those amazing 26 points from 30 - minus any senior CB's and no captain. An Achievement Klopp has cited as one of the greatest he has witnessed.


Have people forgotten the desperate situation we were in? Have they forgotten that Klopp may well have been gone a while back but for this??

It beggars belief that so many on here seem totally unable to see it for what it was and how it highlighted the Klopp effect.


https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/05/jurgen-klopp-insists-cl-qualification-would-be-one-of-biggest-achievements-ever/

and - "Mission Impossible"

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/jurgen-klopp-champions-league-premier-league-liverpool-roy-hodgson-b1852517.html


Then the season following that huge achievement - missing out - by however fine a margin in 2021/22 and then slumping totally in 2022/23 surely gives credence to the narrative that the club was totally remiss in NOT keeping OR replacing Wijnaldum? Klopp has been brilliant but we have witnessed successive squads that hit the wall mentally and physically either following a marathon stretch - or at the end of one. The fine margins likely bridged and any ensuing slumps surely mitigated by either keeping hold of Gini OR replacing him...? Neither of which happened.

[justincredible]

https://x.com/anfieldsector/status/1796458588065648809?s=46&t=_4uI6CiVRqge8WqM7F37Iw

Think this could be a great signing....

Potential to be the next - Mane. Pace, power and can finish....

Would happily sell Diaz and bring him in...

[teesred]

I'd rather we signed Toney but he does look decent Mbuemo.
Yesterday we were linked with Watkins (via the rag). No chance that happens.
Didn't realise he's actually older than Toney.

[Kev0909]

https://x.com/anfieldsector/status/1796458588065648809?s=46&t=_4uI6CiVRqge8WqM7F37Iw

Think this could be a great signing....

Potential to be the next - Mane. Pace, power and can finish....

Would happily sell Diaz and bring him in...

Me too Diaz is simply not good enough i'm afraid, no end product exciting to watch skillful etc, but a better theo walcott..

[BOBPAISLEYFAN]

During my almost 60yrs as a Liverpool supporter, I have seen us sign some players who we thought would reach the stars and simply didnt, and other players who we all questioned why we signed them at all, who in turn went on to be World beaters….

The truth is, it is not an exact science and its a bit like what Henry Ford said about Marketing, “ I spend £4M on Marketing and only half of it is worthwhile, if only I knew which half…!!! ”

Yes, data analysis can help but truth of the matter is, no-one really knows for sure, its a bloody lottery…hand on heart which of us truly forecasted the successes we have enjoyed in the recent past, Coutinho, Milner, Gini, Robertson, Salah, Firmino, Mane, Matip, etc etc …its true the more you spend the more likely they will succeed, Big Virg and Alison are good examples, but on the flip side it could be argued that the jury is still out on Nunez… and the less said about Keita the better..��

Proof of the pudding is always in the eating, so personally I don’t get too hung up on signings, yes I have a list of players I consider would be a good fit, but tbf wtf do I know… hey ho fingers crossed this summer we concentrate on improving the starting eleven, rather than from the bottom up..