Liverpool transfers in/out and rumours 22/23 + Contracts

[Insidious]

so they are telling Virgil hes not worth the same amount of money? they are guessing hes a busted flush?? why are you protecting these greedy fuckers? You do realize the money they are saving on wages IS NOT BEING SPENT ON PLAYERS? where is the sodding money?? wheres the 100 million that was put down for Caicedo?. and over 18 million we have saved in wages?? where is the money we get for being in the champions league??

I am speculating - as are you.

None of us knows precisely what is going on with the contract negotiations. I have put forward a theory as to what MIGHT be going on. A 33-year old is of less "value" to us than a player in his prime - a depreciating asset if you wish to look at it from a business perspective, much as I absolutely abhor that type of language.

If FSG's greed is an issue, organise a protest. If the opinions of the forum are a reflection of the fanbase, you'll doubtless have thousands of followers and will have played your part in saving the club from seemingly inevitable Doom.

I tend to suggest roughly once a year that people organise a protest, if the owners are so bad. Still waiting, which makes me wonder....

[justme]

Doom? the facts we haven't won a major honour for 5 years? Fa cup and 2 league cups are wonderful.. But we need more and we need backing from the owners..
You never answered where the money is?? then again you have an opinion on that. until you change it next time.. RIGHT?

[Insidious]

Every single deal we do is all about MONEY. we don't sign players who are slightly over the value we place on them and we don't sell players for less than the price we place on them. The club expect 25 million for Kelleher.. and 20 million for Berg.. no club is gonna pay that.. in the long run we end up losing money over contracts. so fking stupid this is..

I don't entirely disagree with you here - our over-valuation of our players, when wanting a sale, has been an issue before.

It's a clear strategy. We want to show we won't sell players on the cheap as it makes us look like pushovers. However, you (quite rightly) point out that we end up losing money as a result, as we're not pliable enough in our stance.

The balance needs to be better - fair criticism. There were two of our players (I can't remember who, but it was the same window, one of them was Phillips I think) we received £12.5m bids for and we insisted on £15m - I think accepting a total of £25m and using it, rather than holding out for a total of £30m and seeing none of it, would have been better and I imagine you'd agree.

[Insidious]

Doom? the facts we haven't won a major honour for 5 years? Fa cup and 2 league cups are wonderful.. But we need more and we need backing from the owners..
You never answered where the money is?? then again you have an opinion on that. until you change it next time.. RIGHT?

Again, if the owners aren't up to par, people have the option of protesting.

As to where the money is, I'm not John Henry's accountant, so who am I to say?

Though the main reason I haven't attempted to answer the questions is because, more often than not, when I present an answer to a question on here (which often takes time) people just ask 4/5/6 new questions of me, whilst rarely reciprocating when I happen to ask them - beyond giving a sarcastic reply or insult.

Gradually that's become tiresome and I don't actually owe anybody my time and energy to research things they're perfectly capable of doing themselves. Most seasons I have given a breakdown to do with accounts etc and provided sources for example, with reasons as to why we may or may not spend for that particular season etc yet I'll still get asked about net spend all season because people are too lazy to refer back to stuff that's laid out for them.

Case in point, you're suggesting about me changing my opinion on stuff - I've already addressed that perception today, but it's on the agenda again - already.

[Steveo]

Replacing players is part and parcel of building squads. Selling/Releasing players doesn't negate the fact that the 4 were brought in.

And Bobby was replaced by Nunez.

All 5 (6 if you insist on including Bobby for some reason) were sold or released for a grand total of roughly £55m. With only 2 of the 6 players bringing in said fee.

The 5 'replacements' were brought in for a combined £225m (approx).

Not exactly scrimping by. No Coutinho Money.

This is part of the reason why I get irritated by the 'spend some money' brigade. Look at the squad of players we have and it is littered with £30/40m/50m+ players with a few cheapos thrown in. Look at the players we've released in the last few years. Ox, Keita, Bobby, Wij, Thiago just off the top of my head - there's £150m worth of signings just released for nothing.

We don't always get the right players (which is a different argument) but money is spent.

So - we did bring in 4 new players but that’s “part and parcel” of building squads - the evolution - the fact we let 5 go - again part and parcel” despite the number of outgoings being bigger than the number of incomings - and some of the incomings NOT being close to first or even second choice.

We can say with certainty that Nunez is Bobby’s replacement 😜 - and shout about the combined fee across 5 players totalling £225 million or £80 more than we got for Coutinho way back in January 2018!

But we ain't restrained… It’s not like we have won anything… We have t earned the right to go for top targets… oh no we ain’t juggling the spend to fit in with a bullshit self sustaining budget while paying off 2 (day tripper) stands the owners simply could not afford to help us out with.

As long as you don’t get “irritated” mate that’s the main thing. Money is definitely spent - what on earth was I thinking..?

[Steveo]

Seems I don't.

Ox and Keita just about got over the 600-minute mark combined in the Premier League for 22/23 - there wasn't a lot needing "replaced" - but we still went ahead and got players in.

Midfield required acquisitions and acquisitions came. I see little to complain about. Net improvement on the squad in terms of availability x ability for me whilst still leaving room for players that need to continue their development, such as Jones, Elliott, Gravenberch, Bajcetic.

“Net improvement on the squad in terms of availability”. “whilst still leaving room for” “players” “development”…..?

Ok so we could simply capture 4 robust league 1 players (or 4 track and field athletes) to go in there - that improves availability… That would certainly leave plenty of room for “players that need to continue their development”

[Insidious]

“Net improvement on the squad in terms of availability”. “whilst still leaving room for” “players” “development”…..?

Ok so we could simply capture 4 robust league 1 players (or 4 track and field athletes) to go in there - that improves availability… That would certainly leave plenty of room for “players that need to continue their development”

See, that's a very hyperbolic and needlessly sarcastic interpretation of what I'm saying. I mentioned focused on "availability x ability" - not just "availability".

To clarify, a 7/10 ability player who is available most of the time is (net) "better" than a 10/10 quality player who is hardly ever fit. Few would dream of saying that Curtis Jones was a "better player" than Thiago Alcantara for example - but it wouldn't be unfair to say that Jones was able to contribute more last season than Thiago, in large part because he was available.

N-o-b-o-d-y is suggesting we target mediocre players. We bought a top quality player in Mac Allister, potentially top-quality players in Szoboszlai and Gravenberch and a very solid squad option in Endo. It could easily be argued that 3 of those players haven't reached their prime yet (room for development - Endo unlikely to improve much of course) and their injury records are better than those of Ox and Keita, who weren't getting any better - and Grav/Szob/Mac are younger than the insanely talented Thiago, future-proofing the midfield overall.

Net improvement. We get talent (that may yet develop further) onto the pitch and we get talent onto the pitch more often.

That's a win for me.

[Steveo]

Do you think MacAllister will win as much as Fabinho did at Liverpool?

[Steveo]

Wasn’t trying to be sarcastic Sid - I was simply highlighting the flaw in the logic.

[Insidious]

Gut instinct is no - we kept a side together (starting XI especially) where many experienced their peak years at the same time and under the best Manager in World Football in my eyes.

But Mac Allister DOES have time on his side if he stays with us through to 34 or so and we do have a good platform to further build from - so let's find out.

Would be.....six that we he won, right?

Community Shield
European Super Cup
Club World Cup
League Cup
Premier League
Champion's League

- could be missing one, but I think he won 1x each of those.