Liverpool transfers in/out and rumours 22/23 + Contracts

[Insidious]

The reality is - Jurgen took a bang average squad that was comfortably below that which Rafa inherited and he got them to the top and won the title.

I actually think this could be a cracking topic for discussion as its' own thread some time when it isn't a point of contention within a larger discussion - a good one for a rainy Monday night in future on an international break perhaps.

[Steveo]

Nobody can, definitively, of course not. We'll never know and we can't quantify a reality we don't have access to.

However, despite the point you're making, I don't think you personally reeeeeally believe that -

Brandt would have become equal-or-superior to Salah - with his -

42 goals in 215 appearances for Bayer Leverkusen
40 goals in 216 appearances for Borussia Dortmund.

Or indeed Gotze would have become equal-or-superior to Mane (joined in 15/16 and 21/22 was his last season, yes?) who managed -

15/16 - 6 goals in 21 appearances for Bayern Munich
16/17 - 2 goals in 16 appearances for Borussia Dortmund
17/18 - 2 goals in 32 appearances for Borussia Dortmund
18/19 - 7 goals in 34 appearances for Borussia Dortmund
19/20 - 3 goals in 21 appearances for Borussia Dortmund
20/21 - 6 goals in 25 appearances for PSV Eindhoven
21/22 - 12 goals in 52 appearances for PSV Eindhoven

Werner is a more interesting one - and he's a player with phenomenal movement, so I don't think the idea that he could have been a machine under Klopp is actually terribly far-fetched, but we'll never know. The 95 goals in 159 appearance for Leipzig was certainly excellent. He had all the tools, but so does Darwin in many ways - and Klopp didn't get the very best out of him. Klopp isn't perfect (as close as it gets perhaps!) and neither is the data analytics team - but I still think we can rate both highly rather than it being a "versus" dissection.

Absolutely I don't BUT we will never know. Havertz may stay at Chelsea and be a total flop. Bellingham might come here and bomb - nobody knows these outcomes. DeBuyne may bomb in west London too.. who knows?

But we do know that Klopp turned many players who were decent into world beaters and some wher were bang average into decent... We also know that they turned sharply away from being world beaters after departing Jurgen's tutelage at Anfield.

Coutinho, Mane & Wijnaldum just 3 examples.

[Steveo]

Absolutely. I think at least half of that 07-09 side would have walked into the 18-22 side. But outside the first 13 or 14 it was an absolute shambles. N'Gog, Voronin, Degan, Biscan, Insua, Kelly, Riera, Spearing, El Zhar.

Under cowboy owners.. So once again. Manager at a lower level - and Rafa was - owners literally robbing the club blind YET - a side that was arguably as good or better 1 through 12.


So With that in mind and considering we did have the best manager in the world in place for 9 years.. a man that we all accept worked miracles.. HOW do we only go 1 major trophy better? What could it be that is in the way..?

[Insidious]

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/07/200809-liverpools-best-team-since-glory-days/

Come on mate - just how short is your memory? That squad you are laughing at took the best United team they ever had under Fergy all the way. Yes we were a few players short BUT we had 2 cowboys in charge.

Cracking team that and perhaps even now my "favourite" Liverpool team despite the lack of silverware in 08/09. Had Rafa been able to add to it and had we better squad depth.....phwoar......

Absolutely wild that is finished 4 points off Fergie's Man United side (86-to-90) when a Rodgers side finished a slightly closer 2 points off Pellegrini's Man City side (84-to-86) given Rafa having a better team and being a better Manager - football is odd that way - not to mention Suarez having one of the most ridiculous individual seasons of all time.

[jozza800]

Absolutely he did. YOu have just bolded the headline to detract from the whole.

A typical tactic when someone is wrong and cannot accept it.

"He ONLY managed to get a better depth of squad together than Rafa by turning water into wine - taking mostly "bang average" to a European final - then lifting us up again and into the CL positions and finall... by selling his best player for an absolute fortune."

What else do you suppose I mean by turning water into wine? Come on Jozza you are better than that

Not sure how an opinion in a discussion can be wrong.

Good recruitment certainly helped.

If we had sold Coutinho (re Torres) and brought in Bellemy / Crouch (who were both decent btw) level players instead of Virg and Allison, I have a feeling the last 6 or 7 years may have played out very differently.

[jozza800]

This isn't a directed question Steveo, I know you dont like questoins as answers but as an aside to the current discussion how do we think Rafa would have fared had he taken over in 2015?

Lets assume similar transfers happen over his tenure.

[jozza800]

Cracking team that and perhaps even now my "favourite" Liverpool team despite the lack of silverware in 08/09. Had Rafa been able to add to it and had we better squad depth.....phwoar......

Absolutely wild that is finished 4 points off Fergie's Man United side (86-to-90) when a Rodgers side finished a slightly closer 2 points off Pellegrini's Man City side (84-to-86) given Rafa having a better team and being a better Manager - football is odd that way - not to mention Suarez having one of the most ridiculous individual seasons of all time.

There's a segment on LFC Tv at the moment with Gerrard and Mo. And Stevie is asked about who was better Torres or Suarez (and like me and probabaly most...) he intimates that Suarez is the better of the two but he mentions with an absolute twinkle in his eye that 18 month spell both he and Torres were on absolute fire.

I genuinely believe that there wasn't a better player on the planet than Gerrard from 05-09. The thought of Gerrard in Jurgan's 19-22 side would definitely merit an Archer quote!

[miller0863]

Oh yes - can't say I like London either - but I'm pretty sure most 20 something footballers from France, Spain or Italy....don't share our view on life or hoods - just yet

Aye, I’m not a twenty something millionaire footballer with the sexual capacity of a rutting Rhino.

So our views on places to live would probably differ somewhat

[Steveo]

Not sure how an opinion in a discussion can be wrong.

Good recruitment certainly helped.

If we had sold Coutinho (re Torres) and brought in Bellemy / Crouch (who were both decent btw) level players instead of Virg and Allison, I have a feeling the last 6 or 7 years may have played out very differently.

I think you are wrong in your assertions. You don't have to be sure of it, but that is how it is. And to bold the heading and only respond to that bit without the explanations seems a deliberate act and one designed to cast me in the wrong rather than face the facts.

[jozza800]

Under cowboy owners.. So once again. Manager at a lower level - and Rafa was - owners literally robbing the club blind YET - a side that was arguably as good or better 1 through 12.


So With that in mind and considering we did have the best manager in the world in place for 9 years.. a man that we all accept worked miracles.. HOW do we only go 1 major trophy better? What could it be that is in the way..?

I'm going to say Man City and the neccessity to gain 90+ pts to win a League title.