Liverpool transfers in/out and rumours 22/23 + Contracts

[CCTV]

Very fine margins - we have failed to sell Ox for example (which we would have hoped to do) when giving out game time to 8 midfield options - we definitely wouldn't have been able to give him more minutes last season say if he was NINTH choice had we gotten another midfielder - then you're also potentially giving less minutes to lads like Keita - who needs game time so we can decide to keep or sell - and definitely needs game time to attract a buyer if we want to sell.

Also a ninth midfielder creates the same problem for a "make-or-break" lad like Curtis Jones - we won't learn if he is up to the task if he doesn't get the minutes because we have that ninth mid.

Harvey Elliott gets less minutes to either develop into the star the club believe he can be or the homegrown player we can command a high fee for due to his age in due course.

The timing of the World Cup combined with the 5-subs rule will throw permutations up this season - for all we know (and we won't to be fair) we have business lined up for January and feel we have enough for the period of time until then.

Worth noting that we saw Origi, Minamino and Mane depart to facilitate the arrivals of Núñez, Carvalho and Diaz within a 5-6 month spell. That is about 50% of our numerical attacking options being turned over in a period of time consisting of just two transfer windows - that gives me quiet confidence that we can address the midfield situation fairly quickly over a couple of windows if the right targets (or the recruitment team's back-ups) are available. The nature of a 25-man squad does mean we will need an "out" or two to facilitate, plus we can supplement transfers with young lads that are already here - one of Morton or Bajcetic may "make it" as a squad option just yet.

Ox will almost certainly depart, Milner likely will too and Keita could go either way. If a lad like Sučić or Bellingham came in and we either buy another or give more minutes to, say, Morton - then the picture (in terms of average age and player availability) can look better quickly.

Some may say we should have "shown Ox the door" for example but the fact that we generally don't freeze players out is probably one of the factors that makes lads want to come to us in the first place, same with giving younger lads a chance. Add in what we're up against in Man City and it's definitely a fine balancing act to compete - which to be fair we are managing to do.

It's as easy to point to a dodgy refereeing decision in a match between Man City and Everton (or indeed Villa's inability to defend a 2-0 lead) or Courtois having a blinder in a Final as it to stress on the presence (or lack of) a particular midfielder - with no guarantee that they integrate into the side as well as we might hope.

"but the fact that we generally don't freeze players out is probably one of the factors that makes lads want to come to us in the first place"

What world are you living in

I'm sure when Nunez signed it was because we have Ox and Naby both potentially leaving next summer as free agents, and rarely contributing

If we buy better players we improve,
if we keep underperfroming players and lose them on free transfers we lose.

Cream rises to the top, those who can't compete get moved on.

[Insidious]

I don't disagree with any of that ....but it's fine margins I am talking about. Who would you say has better options to bring off the bench or as an injury replacement? ..If it's City and they keep beating us by a point that's a disadvantage that needs to be addressed.......not next season....but now....

I won't dispute that - like I said, I'd love us to add a midfielder - though escalation is a factor too - we start buying £70m midfielders, they'll buy £80m midfielders. We start offering £250k-per-week wages, they'll offer £400k-per-week wages.

We're fighting on a lot of fronts in murky waters - I don't think we navigate them perfectly, but do feel we do a largely good job.

[Insidious]

"but the fact that we generally don't freeze players out is probably one of the factors that makes lads want to come to us in the first place"

What world are you living in

I'm sure when Nunez signed it was because we have Ox and Naby both potentially leaving next summer as free agents, and rarely contributing

This style of discussion where you pick out one key point and then put words into the mouth of the person you're having a chat with is very Fox News of you CCTV - you can definitely do better - I've seen you articulate wonderfully in discussions on here.

I am not, nor would I suggest, that Núñez came here because Ox and Naby are not contributing enough. He will be coming because we are a desirable destination with excellent players, excellent Manager, good wages and can offer Champion's League football and the chance to win trophies.

Players do like a settled dressing room though if they have the choice - and it will be evident to a lot of professional lads who get chatting to each other that we have one of the better ones going.

If you were changing company and had to join a place where the Office environment was renowned for having great chemistry, it's definitely going to have at least a factor in your decision-making, rather than joining a toxic workplace.

[CCTV]

This style of discussion where you pick out one key point and then put words into the mouth of the person you're having a chat with is very Fox News of you CCTV - you can definitely do better - I've seen you articulate wonderfully in discussions on here.

I am not, nor would I suggest, that Núñez came here because Ox and Naby are not contributing enough. He will be coming because we are a desirable destination with excellent players, excellent Manager, good wages and can offer Champion's League football and the chance to win trophies.

Players do like a settled dressing room though if they have the choice - and it will be evident to a lot of professional lads who get chatting to each other that we have one of the better ones going.

If you were changing company and had to join a place where the Office environment was renowned for having great chemistry, it's definitely going to have at least a factor in your decision-making, rather than joining a toxic workplace.

If you say something stupid it will get pointed out, funny how you see this as a fox news thing.
You said
"but the fact that we generally don't freeze players out is probably one of the factors that makes lads want to come to us in the first place"

Who are the players you freeze out ? The ones you want to sell.

You identified Ox as a player we've not frozen out, how has keeping Ox made us a more attractive club for the players we want to add ?

In your reply, it seems you are stepping away from your proposition that...
But the fact that we generally don't freeze players out is probably one of the factors that makes lads want to come to us in the first place
To
I am not, nor would I suggest, that Núñez came here because Ox and Naby are not contributing enough. He will be coming because we are a desirable destination with excellent players, excellent Manager, good wages and can offer Champion's League football and the chance to win trophies.

Ox and Keita are arguably the 2 most disappointing signings under Klopp. They are not assisting our efforts to win titles in a manner commensurate with their costs and wages.

You might want to clarify whether you are saying
"but the fact that we generally don't freeze players out is probably one of the factors that makes lads want to come to us in the first place"
Or
I am not, nor would I suggest, that Núñez came here because Ox and Naby are not contributing enough. He will be coming because we are a desirable destination with excellent players, excellent Manager, good wages and can offer Champion's League football and the chance to win trophies.

Is it a factor that makes lads want to come to us, or not ?

Comparing an office and an elite football club is a little silly imo,
Mo Salah was dubbed Toxic last year, as he sought wages that would be unbelievable for many due to FSG perceptions.
Less of a media fanfare, Mane was seeking the same wages, and got them at Bayern.

The whole discussion of toxic is funny. Football is a sport, sport is competition, men competing for the honours and hoping not to lose a game of football that means so much to many around the world. For academic sjws the field of sport is very problematic as they despise the love of sport.
If you are lucky enough to be good enough, you want to win.

[CCTV]

You said
"Some may say we should have "shown Ox the door" for example but the fact that we generally don't freeze players out is probably one of the factors that makes lads want to come to us in the first place,"

That is a direct quote.
I read it as

1 Some say we should have shown ox the door for example.
2 But the fact we don't generally freeze players out
3 Is probably one of the reasons that makes lads want to come to us in the first place.

Care to explain how I've twisted your words?
In whichever thread takes your fancy ?

[ianlfc]

CCTV, Are you OK hun ?

[CCTV]

CCTV, Are you OK hun ?

Yeah, I'm just wondering how I twisted Sids words, as per the accusation.

[Insidious]

If you say something stupid it will get pointed out, funny how you see this as a fox news thing.
You said
"but the fact that we generally don't freeze players out is probably one of the factors that makes lads want to come to us in the first place"

Who are the players you freeze out ? The ones you want to sell.

You identified Ox as a player we've not frozen out, how has keeping Ox made us a more attractive club for the players we want to add ?

Can you genuinely not see that by posing a question like "how has keeping Ox made us a more attractive club for the players we want to add?" totally misrepresents a minor point I made about us having a working environment where we don't actively try to push players out of the club?

[CCTV]

Can you genuinely not see that by posing a question like "how has keeping Ox made us a more attractive club for the players we want to add?" totally misrepresents a minor point I made about us having a working environment where we don't actively try to push players out of the club?

I've seen you make a statement.
Then in a reply afterwards, seemingly refute your own statement with an alternative viewpoint.

I've presented what you posted, broken it into 3 sections almost verbatim, and am asking how I've misrepresented your words ?

You said
"1)Some may say we should have "shown Ox the door" for example 2) but the fact that we generally don't freeze players out 3) is probably one of the factors that makes lads want to come to us in the first place,"

The question of mine you have a problem with...

how has keeping Ox made us a more attractive club for the players we want to add?

I genuinely cannot see how you are claiming I've twisted your words,
And I'd suggest the question is a fair question, with respect to what you posted.

[scientificred]

"but the fact that we generally don't freeze players out is probably one of the factors that makes lads want to come to us in the first place"

What world are you living in

I'm sure when Nunez signed it was because we have Ox and Naby both potentially leaving next summer as free agents, and rarely contributing

If we buy better players we improve,
if we keep underperfroming players and lose them on free transfers we lose.

Cream rises to the top, those who can't compete get moved on.

Dear CCTV, have you ever heard of the Peter Principle!