General transfer thread (everything not LFC) 22/23

[LEGS]

True.

I can't remember which game it was, but they lost an "easier" fixture not long before the Tottenham game. I have always hated the idea of needing a so-called "6-pointer" go your way so as far as I see it, Arsenal should have done everything within their power to ensure that Spurs were at least 4 points behind to ensure that said leap-frogging couldn't happen.

In the same way I don't think we should (ideally) ever "have" to beat Man City to win the title as it's just too much pressure on those matches - 108 of the 114 points to play for don't come from playing their lot (and vice versa for them playing us) and the aim should really be about getting as many of those 108 as possible so those 2 games are essentially a free hit.

If I remember correctly that defeat to Spurs wasnt vital they were still a point clear with 2-3 to play.

Sure they lost / drew at Newcastle after which really cost them.

They messed up completely they were in a strong place with 5-6 games to go.

[Taksin]

Again Steveo

Do you believe it's all down to one man or not?

Are you agreeing with Alan Shearer or not?.. readers of your posts may find themselves confused.

What you do is you try to ram home that message, and then you pretend its not what you believe in the next sentence.

This is confusing as you don't seem to hold to the same standards in your analysis to the fortunes of Tottenham, an inconsistency that those of us who disagree with you and Alan Shearer (or with that one of your split personalities you allow to express itself for the purposes of making your point) notice that your convictions are wavering when it allows you to make a point that pleases you.

When pulled up on this simple inconsistency, there seems to be no discipline in examining the problem in your logic

Again, if Spurs are now doing so well, is it all down to Conte? (If so, why bring up again the 1 billion pound stadium?) Is that what Alan Shearer thinks?

And if Conte is so good, why are we guaranteed to be languishing outside the top four without Klopp when we could sign another good manager like Conte?

[Daffydd]

If I remember correctly that defeat to Spurs wasnt vital they were still a point clear with 2-3 to play.

Sure they lost / drew at Newcastle after which really cost them.

They messed up completely they were in a strong place with 5-6 games to go.

They were still a point clear but they would have been 4 points clear had they drawn with Spurs.

They could have kept Spurs at arms length but they let them in. Fine margins and all that.

[Steveo]

Again Steveo

Do you believe it's all down to one man or not?

Are you agreeing with Alan Shearer or not?.. readers of your posts may find themselves confused.

What you do is you try to ram home that message, and then you pretend its not what you believe in the next sentence.

This is confusing as you don't seem to hold to the same standards in your analysis to the fortunes of Tottenham, an inconsistency that those of us who disagree with you and Alan Shearer (or with that one of your split personalities you allow to express itself for the purposes of making your point) notice that your convictions are wavering when it allows you to make a point that pleases you.

When pulled up on this simple inconsistency, there seems to be no discipline in examining the problem in your logic

Again, if Spurs are now doing so well, is it all down to Conte? (If so, why bring up again the 1 billion pound stadium?) Is that what Alan Shearer thinks?

And if Conte is so good, why are we guaranteed to be languishing outside the top four without Klopp when we could sign another good manager like Conte?

Don't concern yourself with those "readers of" my "posts" who "may find themselves confused." They will cope.

Do I agree that it is all down to one man - no, obviously it can't be done entirely alone. Part of why I have credited FSG for his capture however fortunate it may have been. Do I agree with Shearer's sentiment - yes I agree with the point he is making. Do I agree that his wording is bullet proof in a court of law? Probably not - but he was trying to make a point live on the radio… Does that mean we should ignore what he says because he didn't caveat it? No..

I am sure Busby, Stein, Shankly, Paisley, Clough, Dalglish, Fergie, Wenger, Jose, Pep and Klopp were all aided to varying degrees by many individuals (including their spouses ) and systems.

This has been my belief in Jurgen from day one, no "inconsistency" at all. No problem that I can see with my logic but your lack of ability to take what is being said for what it is seems an issue.

As for Conte WHY in the living fook would he come to us? Does he strike you as a sell-to-buy kinda guy? behave

I mentioned this when he signed for Spurs - he will have been guaranteed wedge.. and wedge he has been given, despite them spending over £1 billion on their stadium upgrade/rebuild - call it what you will - almost doubling their capacity from 36,260 to 62,800. It's impressive whatever your take. I understand that their current spending concerns you as you believed them to have been on the verge of going bust after the stadium cost and pandemic double whammy. But that's the way it goes.

Judging who we might have got besides Klopp is a bit nuts - but in my opinion nobody is out there that could have come close to doing what Klopp has for us - with the same kind of investment.

The way I see it - sugar daddy/state owned clubs most often get the manager they need to capture and mould the players to win if not they just replace - and those who aren't run like that have to get lucky with the manager FIRST... then - and ONLY then - can the rest fall into place.

[Taksin]

Does that mean we should ignore what he says because he didn't caveat it? No..

This doesn't make sense and is typical of why I criticise your style. He said it was down to one man. How does he caveat that? 'It was down to one man - and a load of other men'. If he said that he would be disagreeing with you and agreeing with me.

I am sure Busby, Stein, Shankly, Paisley, Clough, Dalglish, Fergie, Wenger, Jose, Pep and Klopp were all aided to varying degrees by many individuals (including their spouses ) and systems.

Yes they were successful during periods when their clubs were well run. They couldn't do it alone.

As for Conte WHY in the living fook would he come to us?

Whether he would come to us and what payment he would demand is of no consequence to the matter at hand. The question is;

1) whether another good manager, like him, would do well at our club - reflecting the good governance at our club
2) whether you, Steveo, are attributing his success at Spurs down solely to him or whether you absent-mindedly include in your praise for Spurs their good governance, something you work very hard to deny our own owners

I understand that their current spending concerns you as you believed them to have been on the verge of going bust after the stadium cost and pandemic double whammy. But that's the way it goes.

It does not concern me as you like to imagine - I still see no evidence that their stadium costs have not restricted their player investment. Our squad is light years ahead of theirs.

Judging who we might have got besides Klopp is a bit nuts - but in my opinion nobody is out there that could have come close to doing what Klopp has for us - with the same kind of investment.

I don't see why it's any more nuts than asking what Klopp would have done at Utd. Over recent seasons I have asked you whether Pochettino would have done well here as well as Conte. They seem like perfectly reasonable theoretical questions. I ask them for a purpose, you seem to avoid them for a purpose. What you are saying above is that you believe Klopp is by a long margin the best manager in the world (on a budget).

The way I see it - sugar daddy/state owned clubs most often get the manager they need to capture and mould the players to win if not they just replace - and those who aren't run like that have to get lucky with the manager FIRST... then - and ONLY then - can the rest fall into place.

That's a strange way of seeing it, but that's what the argument is about. Obviously, not having a sugar daddy is a disadvantage as Barcelona, operating one of your other favourite models, are discovering. The club has to manage its resources better. Spurs too will have to manage their budget.

I also believe the manager is a very important figure at a club - but I recognise the importance of good ownership as the primary factor. Without that no manager can function.

[Steveo]

Seems like you are dancing all over the place again mate, but the music has stopped.

[Taksin]

Seems like you are dancing all over the place again mate, but the music has stopped.

Perhaps

I’ll just have to wait until your next comments on how well Spurs are run and see if you’ll talk then

[Steveo]

I also believe the manager is a very important figure at a club - but I recognise the importance of good ownership as the primary factor. Without that no manager can function.

This last bit is at least an interesting point I suppose. So you believe that Ferguson had this but Moyes, and Van Gaal, and Jose, and Ole and, Rangnick all did not?

Do you also believe this was the case with Liverpool up until Kenny left us? Good ownership and then Souness, and then Roy Evans, and then Gerrard Houllier, and then Rafa Benitez, and then Woy Hodgson owners bad ?

And then what for Kenny Dalgish again, and then Brendan Rodgers... ? Owners good or bad?


Perhaps the owners were a little up and down during the Houllier and Benitez spells? Had we won that 6th European cup v Milan in 2007 and the title in 2009 could we claim Hicks and Gillett were a solid foundation too?

This is the crux of our to and fro Taksin, and I am really sorry mate but your belief looks to be on rather shaky ground. We know that without a football club no player can don a shirt, but that goes without saying. You are relentless at trying to big up our owners. They have done some good things and some bad things too, like trying to raise ST prices before a boycott forced them to back down. Attempting to Trademark the very name of the city AND were also prime instigators of the closed off monopolised ESL! None of this ever seems to even register for you.

I am at least pleased you do "believe the manager is a very important figure at a club". Sweet lord.


As for your last sentence.. "Without that no manager can function"...well... It's a little ridiculous to highlight it, as we all know we need air to breathe as a car needs petrol to run - but if owners cannot provide those basics then they are actively a hindrance. This cannot be described as a primary reason when it is obligatory.

You are essentially saying Salah couldn't win the golden boot without his football boots - therefore his boots were the "primary factor".. it really is that weak.

In summary..If FSG weren't here there would be someone else and were Klopp managing their team I am sure he would have been able to match or eclipse what he has working for them. Had he gone to United myself and plenty of others - don't want to even think about how different the landscape might look right now.

[Steveo]

Perhaps

I’ll just have to wait until your next comments on how well Spurs are run and see if you’ll talk then

Well while you joke around with yourself it might be worth mentioning that in the 12 years of FSG ownership including 6 years with the best manager on the planet, Spurs have finished above us 7 times to our 5. 4 of our 5 higher placed finishes coming on the watch of... oh yes. Jurgen Klopp.

What is also strange is that in the 12 years prior to FSG, including the disastrous Hicks and Gillett era we finished above Spurs 12 times out of 12. Food for thought.

[vin]

Well while you joke around with yourself it might be worth mentioning that in the 12 years of FSG ownership including 6 years with the best manager on the planet, Spurs have finished above us 7 times to our 5. 4 of our 5 higher placed finishes coming on the watch of... oh yes. Jurgen Klopp.

What is also strange is that in the 12 years prior to FSG, including the disastrous Hicks and Gillett era we finished above Spurs 12 times out of 12. Food for thought.

Why? What's the fascination with Spurs. They haven't won anything. They may challenge this season.