Formations

[scientificred]

Exactly how important is it how a team lines up? 433, 4231, 532 etc.
The game changes from the kick off with both teams exploiting opportunities and frailties with regards the opposing team.
My perception is that the team shape changes throughout the game and sometimes very differently depending on the current match score at the time and/or the importance of the result.
Lots of talk on this forum about team shape and individual roles e.g. number 6 or 8.
Would like some light on such formations and roles as to both their historical and present importance.
Again, my perception is that the game is now far more fluid than such rigid ideas.

[faridtoxteth]

Systems have always been fairly fluid, going back to Cruyff, Michels and total football, but even so I think how teams set up in a designated formation is pretty critical. That classic AC Milan team of the late 80s and early 90s played an imperious 4 4 2. But if you played that system nowadays you'd get overwhelmed in midfield. The only advantage is two upfront to occupy the two centre backs, but even that now is hampered by what we call the six, or sitting defensive mid. that was almost invented by Makeleli in the late 90s.
I think a lot of our success is down to the unusual way we play 433. With our world level overlapping full backs, moving into the space that Sadio and Mo create who in turn have moved into the space vacated by Firmino as false nine. Defenders don't know who to mark half the time. Coaches don't know how to coach against it apart from sitting deep and denying space. But many teams want to feel like they are playing on the front foot.
By the way there is a fantastic book by Jonathan Wilson specifically about this. It's called Inverting the Pyramid and is often cited as being the best book ever written about football.

[ianlfc]

Get it out of your feet and lump it up too the big man. It will by pass the the worst midfield in the world and we'll have none of that tippy tappy shite.
4-4 fucking 2 ,with Nunez and Jota up top.

[faridtoxteth]

Get it out of your feet and lump it up too the big man. It will by pass the the worst midfield in the world and we'll have none of that tippy tappy shite.
4-4 fucking 2 ,with Nunez and Jota up top.

And teams like Burnley and West Brom will lap that up all day.

[miller0863]

If Pep Lijnders packs it in we know we’d be in safe hands with you Ian.

[ianlfc]

If Pep Lijnders packs it in we know we’d be in safe hands with you Ian.

I think you'll find it Jurgens job I'm after. Though Jurgen has finally listened to England's greatest manager so we might now crack this Man City team this season with these tried and tested tactics.

[miller0863]

Nineteen been onto him then?

[Nineteenx]

Nineteen been onto him then?

How DARE you!

On a serious note Diaz does needs to start scoring the goals he was producing at Porto as you pointed out

[ianlfc]

Get it out of your feet and lump it up too the big man. It will by pass the the worst midfield in the world and we'll have none of that tippy tappy shite.
4-4 fucking 2 ,with Nunez and Jota up top.

Oh how yous all laugh 🤣🤣

[Insidious]

Still curious to see if we 4-2-3-1 here and there.

Not every game, not even every other game - but 1-in-6 or 1-in-7 (approximation) depending on the opposition - or even the occasional 45 minutes to rest a midfielder.

Núñez an obvious candidate at no. 9, the CAM role could be done by Firmino, Carvalho or Keita potentially, doing so means you use two of our mids instead of three (giving Thiago or Henderson or whoever a rest) whilst our full-backs can utilise the half spaces (Trent particularly) to congest the middle as Diaz and Salah pull wide - a bi-product of which is potentially reducing the zone of coverage for the two mids (more pressure off lung-busting runs) when set up that way.

Just treat it like the 4-2-4 in the sense that it's a weapon in the arsenal, but keep the 4-3-3 as the default.