Naby Kieta

[jr81]

Understand and respect your view.

Besides the points I've already made, I'd add that I would be reluctant to change too much, too quickly (if Ox and Milner left AND Keita left, we potentially find 3 spots, leading to a "transition" season) and that in the current market, finding 3 top midfielders could require a pretty incredible outlay.

Our sports science team will know more, but they may feel that they have gotten closer to "cracking" how best to utilise him in terms of minimising injury - he actually appeared 23 times in the League for us last season (compared to 10 in 20/21) and appeared 40 times in all comps - so he was available rather a lot.

I'd be keen to see how he does this season, particularly with the 5 subs rule. If he was closer to the 23 League appearances again (rather than the 10) and was largely performing well, I'd hang on a little longer. I'd like to see him get a chance with some of the likes of Diaz, Núñez, Elliott on the pitch - see if he strikes up any sort of chemistry with them - before considering a swing of the Axe just yet.

A "triangle" of him, Diaz and Robertson on the left to mirror and compliment the other side's Henderson/Salah/Trent or Elliot/Salah/Trent triumvirate could be a fun watch. May as well see if it bears fruit before getting rid.

For the league appearances he started 13 games (according to my quick count?) so approx 50%. Better than I thought actually. I just feel if he signs on he will want more money and he isn't worth the reported 120k a week right now due to output.

I get what your saying about what he brings but I would only be happy if he signed on for less money opening more cash for others.

Your point on losing 3 mids at once is valid in fairness. Elliot will have had a full year of integratin(hopefully) so that will help soften the blow of 3 going.

[Insidious]

For the league appearances he started 13 games (according to my quick count?) so approx 50%. Better than I thought actually. I just feel if he signs on he will want more money and he isn't worth the reported 120k a week right now due to output.

I get what your saying about what he brings but I would only be happy if he signed on for less money opening more cash for others.

Your point on losing 3 mids at once is valid in fairness. Elliot will have had a full year of integratin(hopefully) so that will help soften the blow of 3 going.

On the money side. Let's say we extend him on the same terms of his current contract (£120k-per-week, £6.24m or so per-year) for 3 seasons. I know there's be the hidden cost of an agent fee, but 3 years of Keita for less than £19m in the current climate where so many go for over £50m hardly seems like terrible business if we can keep him reasonably fit - replacing him probably costs £35m+ in transfer fee and then we have wage money to find.

I also look at the (potential) ins/outs and the (potential) pecking order. I occasionally list our 8 mids, sometimes with "Milner/Keita" as I think it's subject to debate which is 4th-pick - Milner certainly trusted more. Let us say, for argument's sake, that it is (roughly) this -

Fabinho
Thiago
Henderson
Milner
Keita
Elliott
Jones
Ox

Now. Let's present a scenario where we are able to go and get a top target (we'll use Bellingham) but the powers that be say "your mid was very expensive, promote from within if you want another" much to the groans of Reds everywhere who (probably rightly!) would want to see 2 purchases.

In this scenario, it's a year from now. Milner has left, Ox has left, Elliott has continued to develop - meaning he is breathing down Keita's neck in the pecking order. Having spent money on Bellingham for the first-choice three, we start weaning Henderson into Milner's old "filling-in" role and we promote Morton into Ox's 8th-pick role in the pecking order as Curtis Jones has been doing alright. The new pecking order might look like this -

Fabinho
Thiago
Bellingham
Henderson
Keita
Elliott (pushing to take Keita's spot)
Jones
Morton

- that's if we are funded in such a way that we get the "bare minimum" of one midfield addition without promoting from within and already that looks better. Keith would be 5th-choice and if Elliott continued to develop he could push Keita into 6th-choice. Again, this potential scenario is if we only bring one guy in - we might bring two.

On the squad consistency side, you're keeping a player who knows the system, knows the pressing triggers and isn't under pressure to be constantly fit as he is pushed hard in the pecking order, be it by Elliott, Jones, new transfers or whatever. It prevents you from changing 3 mids in one Summer after a window of changing 3 forwards in one Summer and it's not terribly expensive to do.

If we decide to move on from him I won't be devastated - but I don't think he needs pushed out - particularly if he can make his appearance records resemble last season more often than not, as he made more appearances (all comps) last season than any other with us.

[jr81]

Being mentioned on twitter (pinch of salt) that naby is unhappy with his current situation and contract talks have not progressed at all.

[Red October]

On the money side. Let's say we extend him on the same terms of his current contract (£120k-per-week, £6.24m or so per-year) for 3 seasons. I know there's be the hidden cost of an agent fee, but 3 years of Keita for less than £19m in the current climate where so many go for over £50m hardly seems like terrible business if we can keep him reasonably fit - replacing him probably costs £35m+ in transfer fee and then we have wage money to find.

I also look at the (potential) ins/outs and the (potential) pecking order. I occasionally list our 8 mids, sometimes with "Milner/Keita" as I think it's subject to debate which is 4th-pick - Milner certainly trusted more. Let us say, for argument's sake, that it is (roughly) this -

Fabinho
Thiago
Henderson
Milner
Keita
Elliott
Jones
Ox

Now. Let's present a scenario where we are able to go and get a top target (we'll use Bellingham) but the powers that be say "your mid was very expensive, promote from within if you want another" much to the groans of Reds everywhere who (probably rightly!) would want to see 2 purchases.

In this scenario, it's a year from now. Milner has left, Ox has left, Elliott has continued to develop - meaning he is breathing down Keita's neck in the pecking order. Having spent money on Bellingham for the first-choice three, we start weaning Henderson into Milner's old "filling-in" role and we promote Morton into Ox's 8th-pick role in the pecking order as Curtis Jones has been doing alright. The new pecking order might look like this -

Fabinho
Thiago
Bellingham
Henderson
Keita
Elliott (pushing to take Keita's spot)
Jones
Morton

- that's if we are funded in such a way that we get the "bare minimum" of one midfield addition without promoting from within and already that looks better. Keith would be 5th-choice and if Elliott continued to develop he could push Keita into 6th-choice. Again, this potential scenario is if we only bring one guy in - we might bring two.

On the squad consistency side, you're keeping a player who knows the system, knows the pressing triggers and isn't under pressure to be constantly fit as he is pushed hard in the pecking order, be it by Elliott, Jones, new transfers or whatever. It prevents you from changing 3 mids in one Summer after a window of changing 3 forwards in one Summer and it's not terribly expensive to do.

If we decide to move on from him I won't be devastated - but I don't think he needs pushed out - particularly if he can make his appearance records resemble last season more often than not, as he made more appearances (all comps) last season than any other with us.

You make a lot of sense on that. I was in the get rid camp. But I can see where you're coming from. We DO need a quality first choice mid though. Thiago not fit enough. Henderson getting on.

[ianlfc]

I'd look over it if he was nearly always fit and give his all when called upon . But he's give us nothing ,always injured and get a cold during a bloody heatwave.

[Daffydd]

Still a way to go if he wants to become the greatest Guinean player to ever wear a Liverpool shirt.

[Insidious]

You make a lot of sense on that. I was in the get rid camp. But I can see where you're coming from. We DO need a quality first choice mid though. Thiago not fit enough. Henderson getting on.

Thanks friend.

We absolutely do need a quality first-choice mid to come, 100% - think it happens next Summer, but does need to happen.

Having injury-prone lads or lads in the Autumn of their careers who will pick up more injuries is fine - it's when you have too many that it's an issue and certainly when it comes to our midfield the "too many" applies to us.

Ox out and a sturdier player in would improve things.
Milner out (love him, just Father Time catching up) and a younger (also sturdy) player in improves things.

Two of our first-choice three being 30+ and one being particularly injury-prone needs improving - hence the collective Bellingham obsession - addressing that would improve things too.

We dilute the accumulative effect of age and lads missing minutes through injury by targeting (and promoting) younger, sturdier players. We don't need to do 4-or-5 in one window, but we need to keep it steadily ticking over. If we have 2/3 injury-prone lads of an 8-player selection that is workable - 4 or 5 becomes much more of a gamble.

Jones and Elliott continuing to improve would help, Morton being promoted to Ox's 8th-pick spot could help, Bajcetic hopefully becomes the "next" Morton in time if he develops, plus utilising the transfer market where we need to. It will be interesting to see who we target.

To return to Keita, happy enough to keep him for now the reasons listed in the previous post.

[miller0863]

I’ll be quite happy if he doesn’t want a new contract, the return we got from his last one was laughable.

£54m fee and how much in wages??

Shocking.

[Insidious]

I’ll be quite happy if he doesn’t want a new contract, the return we got from his last one was laughable.

£54m fee and how much in wages??

Shocking.

I won't be heartbroken if he goes by any means. But I don't want us to change too much, too quickly. Ox will surely leave at the end of 22/23 and Milner likely goes too - Keita knows the system and is currently on £120k-per-week, about £6.24m-per-year, so if he renewed for 3 seasons it costs us £19m to do.

When you look at the current market - Gordon linked with a £40m move, Leicester's centre-back linked with an £80m move - hanging onto him may not be the worst idea - he'll be 4th/5th/6th choice and I'd rather spend money on acquiring someone who can lift the midfield (Bellingham) and perhaps address a Firmino replacement (if he's leaving) before looking at another mid - priorities etc.

[Insidious]

Neil Jones@neiljonesgoal

"Little chance of Naby Keita leaving Liverpool in this window.
Club held face-to-face talks with the midfielder's agent earlier this month, and relationship is good. Plan is still for an extension to be agreed."