Is It An Overreaction?

[Insidious]

Even the sports washers would shrink away from that.

Strange that none of them were interested when FSG got the club for a steal. Or maybe they were?

We weren't anything like as success-starved as a Man City or a Newcastle. For successful sportswashing it is much easier if you acquire a fanbase that is so desperate for success that they'll accept anything.

Hence Newcastle's LGBT supporters group not openly speaking out. Liverpool are a fanbase that will take action against what they deem to be wrong plus won't eagerly do mental gymnastics to justify winning at any cost, which makes us an unsafe bet for a certain type of take-over.

[Steveo]

We weren't anything like as success-starved as a Man City or a Newcastle. For successful sportswashing it is much easier if you acquire a fanbase that is so desperate for success that they'll accept anything.

Hence Newcastle's LGBT supporters group not openly speaking out. Liverpool are a fanbase that will take action against what they deem to be wrong plus won't eagerly do mental gymnastics to justify winning at any cost, which makes us an unsafe bet for a certain type of take-over.

But the Chinese were simply smeared Sid. What you say might be true BUT for the fact that the Singapore Billionaire Peter Lin and the China Investment Corporation (CIC) were totally swept aside by Broughton and the banks despite better bids than NESV. Why? We wouldn't have protested at either owner. The ownership is decided on at another level when push comes to shove.

it's political. IF a US investor want s in - HE is getting the gig.

Does it need spelling out

[Insidious]

What would people rather? Genuinely.
Bought out and be a "if you can't beat em join em" club. Or stick to our traditional principles and be on the outside looking in forever?

There's definitely a third option. Throw a coin enough times and it will land on its edge.

As disappointing as it has been to lose to Real Madrid in two Champion's League Finals and lose to Man City in two title races by a solitary point, we have shown that competing is possible.

We can point at certain Summers and say "we needed to invest more here". I don't think we need £200m net spends each Summer or anything else ridiculous like that. If you recruit well then even two more players in the £35-£50m bracket over the last few seasons probably prevents the current malaise being even half as bad as it currently is.

Those investments need to happen though. FSG will probably aim to pay off the Anfield Road End without incurring debt. If the financial payments haven't begun to take place I would be looking at adding the £70m-£80m or so to the debt and investing in a player or two that can help right now but also next season and onward - 22-25 sort of age range ideally. There are definitely lads out there who can help us more than the current renditions of Ox/Keita/Jones/Melo/Elliott and the idea that we have to buy someone "better" than a Thiago needs binned pronto.

There's a cluster of games after the Man City one (before the World Cup) that could yield 10-12 points if we can find something in ourselves, particularly given that 3 of the 5 games are at Anfield. Do so and we could be 6-8 points off the 4th spot coming into January.

BUY A PLAYER in January having done that and the possibility of squeaking into the Top Four in the final weeks becomes less of an insurmountable task. It's looking very improbable just now if we assume it'll take 75 points but we absolutely have to try.

[Steveo]

So again you defend them using our own long overdue infrastructure upgrade - which we hope in time goes into our revenue and also massively increases their eventual sale price, without incurring any debt?

Also WHY can they not - as massive beneficiaries of our huge increases in value - lend us this money until we can pay it back?

The entire setup is only sensible IF the bottom line is the target. The bottom line is ONLY the target IF this club is being used as a vehicle for something else. That isn't acceptable IMO

EDIT: My mistake Sid - you said exactly what I am asking for.. I read it wrong - I should learn to read better.

[teesred]

There's definitely a third option. Throw a coin enough times and it will land on its edge.

As disappointing as it has been to lose to Real Madrid in two Champion's League Finals and lose to Man City in two title races by a solitary point, we have shown that competing is possible.

We can point at certain Summers and say "we needed to invest more here". I don't think we need £200m net spends each Summer or anything else ridiculous like that. If you recruit well then even two more players in the £35-£50m bracket over the last few seasons probably prevents the current malaise being even half as bad as it currently is.

Those investments need to happen though. FSG will probably aim to pay off the Anfield Road End without incurring debt. If the financial payments haven't begun to take place I would be looking at adding the £70m-£80m or so to the debt and investing in a player or two that can help right now but also next season and onward - 22-25 sort of age range ideally. There are definitely lads out there who can help us more than the current renditions of Ox/Keita/Jones/Melo/Elliott and the idea that we have to buy someone "better" than a Thiago needs binned pronto.

There's a cluster of games after the Man City one (before the World Cup) that could yield 10-12 points if we can find something in ourselves, particularly given that 3 of the 5 games are at Anfield. Do so and we could be 6-8 points off the 4th spot coming into January.

BUY A PLAYER in January having done that and the possibility of squeaking into the Top Four in the final weeks becomes less of an insurmountable task. It's looking very improbable just now if we assume it'll take 75 points but we absolutely have to try.

Agree that we have been able to compete but only to a point and because of Klopp in my opinion. Under another manager the same players fall short.

We need more than one player in January, unlikely we'll get more though. Also going on a run to accrue points looks unlikely, personally I don't feel confident against anyone.

[Kev0909]

Once we get city out the way hopefully things improve.... we might even beat forest, then again we're disjointed as them and they've got 23 new players or whatever it is.

[Insidious]

So again you defend them using our own long overdue infrastructure upgrade - which we hope in time goes into our revenue and also massively increases their eventual sale price, without incurring any debt?

Also WHY can they not - as massive beneficiaries of our huge increases in value - lend us this money until we can pay it back?

Limited opportunities to reply as my hands are cold due to working outdoors and I am trying to save as much Data as I can due to the living room being the only spot the Wi-fi is currently working when I am at Home so apologies if replies are slower/sporadic/shorter.

It wasn't said to defend them as such. There was a very "one or the other" suggestion provided in teesred's hypothetical question. I was trying to suggest that we don't necessarily have to watch from afar as we get constantly outgunned or have to be the beneficiaries of a take-over bid from someone with massive cash.

FSG are prudent, "tight" - whatever you want to call it. They are unlikely to want to incur debt and thus it is my suspicion (there's nothing online about it confirming that I know of) that they will use the revenue we generated last season to pay off the Anfield Road End in one fell swoop.

If we were absolutely bossing it this season then I could live with that if I thought it would benefit us long-term and the estimated £11m extra income per year from increased match capacity would certainly help to top up transfer budget or pay an extra "top" player. However I think in the current circumstances this policy if FSG's (which, within this context, I am actually slightly attacking - not defending) could be a real negative for us going forward and that it may be wiser to chalk up some temporary debt to "free up" £70-£80m for the transfer kitty - especially when you consider that Champion's League football helps us generate income anyway.

It seems wiser to do everything we can (including a January purchase or two) to at least ATTEMPT a Top Four finish or unlikely Champion's League win rather than pay off the stadium expansion immediately and suffer for a couple of years.

I'm critiquing their prudence just now - not defending it. I defend much of their decisions, but I think anything other than January investment would be a very poor choice.

[Steveo]

I was wrong Sid - Didn't read your post properly.. I largely agree with your assessment. My mistake entirely.

[CCTV]

Theres no reason we cant go into 200 million debt to buy players. In the long run they will help us get into the "holy grail" that is the top 4. if we don't get top 4, we will be in debt due to the players wages. It stands to reason.

Its a tough balance, in recent times our CL campaigns have been bringing in 200 mill.
Miss out on top 4 that drops, miss out on Europe we're getting nowt.

The model works well enough, increasing our spend by a lot last summer would still have seen us 6th of the top6 below spurs. You've really got to get the timing of cash injections right. It's been the frustrating part as there's always been a sense we were one short or a little light for depth.
Last year by and large was our best for depth and our lesser players helped with the 2 domestic cups.

In a business sense they ballsed up. It was a summer for big spending to sort out midfield issues. The missed an opportunity.

[scientificred]

I think Jurgens apparent insistence on 'this player or not at all' is the big problem.
Jurgens system needs 11 players totally committed to his system.
He seems to lack a different tactic.
He has had that commitment from many players during his tenure with great success at times but more often disappointment at the final hurdle.
That hurts and is exhausting not only physically but mentally.
Players can try again but how often, knowing perhaps it just won't be enough.
Perhaps that is what is happening now?
Doubt!