Conceding goals.

[Insidious]

In the 13/14 and 15/16 season we conceded 50 goals in the League campaign - I haven't gone through every season with a tooth comb, but I would have a calculated guess at those being our worst seasons for goals conceded.

We have conceded 22 goals from 17 matches now - we're on target to be very close to our worst in the defensive sense.

Certain solutions are staring us in the face, namely to buy energetic midfielders and (sorry Harvey) probably bin picking Elliott as a centre-mid for a bit.

But until we do those things (which we should!) what would you personally want to see? Play the midfield three as narrow as possible rather than being more expansive? Drop the back-line deeper? Encourage Robertson not to bomb on and have Gomez over Trent? Change formation?

What of the back line? Despite some recent hiccups, Matip has looked the superior centre-back to me a lot ever since Van Dijk was so cruelly assaulted by Pickford. Would anyone try a Matip and Konate partnership for a few games?

[justme]

The thing is when we had Gini.. We more defensively stronger. Fabinho played has the DM and then either Henderson or Wijnaldum dropped back in. we were very soild. + we also had Bobby who did a lot of work in the midfield.
On the counter teams didnt find little pockets into run at our midfield..Now to close the space and still be able to press on the opposition we are really short in the middle when the ball breaks.
That really messes up our defending. Its really hard to know whether to press the ball when runners come or to drop off. Because that still allows the opposition the ball.

[teesred]

I'd play Bactetic ( spelling?), Give him some games starting. Elliot needs leaving out, he's getting stuck. Leaving him in looks like stubbornness from Klopp to justify his summer comments. He's not cutting it.
The midfield is just an absolute mess that the club have created themselves which is contributing to our influx of goals.
Not sure about the back line, Virgil is never being left out if fit. I still think he's out best, I was and still am hoping he had the brakes on a bit prior to the world cup and will get back to somewhere near his best.

[Crimson Dynasty]

In the 13/14 and 15/16 season we conceded 50 goals in the League campaign - I haven't gone through every season with a tooth comb, but I would have a calculated guess at those being our worst seasons for goals conceded.

We have conceded 22 goals from 17 matches now - we're on target to be very close to our worst in the defensive sense.

Certain solutions are staring us in the face, namely to buy energetic midfielders and (sorry Harvey) probably bin picking Elliott as a centre-mid for a bit.

But until we do those things (which we should!) what would you personally want to see? Play the midfield three as narrow as possible rather than being more expansive? Drop the back-line deeper? Encourage Robertson not to bomb on and have Gomez over Trent? Change formation?

What of the back line? Despite some recent hiccups, Matip has looked the superior centre-back to me a lot ever since Van Dijk was so cruelly assaulted by Pickford. Would anyone try a Matip and Konate partnership for a few games?

Did we look any more solid in the second half when Klopp went with Matip and Konate and took off Virgil?

It's hard to tell decisively as we were all over them in the first 10-15 minutes until we scored, which means they didn't really test our defense as they sat back and tried to soak the pressure and preserve their lead.
But then we did concede, and while that was more Konate's fault than anything Matip did (Virgil could have done), we still looked shaky anytime Brentford got a sniff of an attack.

I'm not sure it would solve anything necessarily (since I think our defensive problems now are more the result of what's happening (or not) just ahead of them in the midfield), but I wouldn't be against going on a few games run to see how it shakes out.

I don't believe Klopp would ever take that kind of a punt though.

As for the other positions, I'm always a YES for playing Gomez more on the right flank in place of Trent, just for more defensive solidity.
Gomez is oddly a more solid and reliable rightback than he is a Centerback and his more natural position.
And he's also a more solid defender overall than Trent is, by a country mile, even though you're definitely sacrificing our attacking strength from the flanks by doing that.

I just feel like right now we need to button up at the back more than worry about what we're losing going forward.

At the end of the day, none of this will matter if we don't fix the middle of the park issues in midfield - whether it be bringing in new personnel or changing our formations and tactics*.
Oh, and that's a definite YES to binning Elliot as a starting center-mid (and I love the lad, but still.....)

(*Speaking of which, it might not be a bad idea to consider re-thinking some of our tactical staples like the high-line defense (from which we've been caught out several times this season), playing out from the back (and being more direct instead) and attempting to pass the other team to death and pass our way to goals)

[teesred]

Agree with that CD.
Our playing out from the back now is horrible. It just looks like a mistake in the making.
The midfield is affecting everything.

[faridtoxteth]

The problem is not the defence, it's the midfield. Stevie Wonder can see that we need at least two midfielders. So that the opposing teams are not just getting a free run at our back four.
I think we are bound to bring in a midfield player this window, despite what the noises are coming out of the club.
I agree we should play Bajcetic a lot now, almost like giving him the experience he would get if he was loaned out. Thiago played well in the last game, less well today, but you always feel he is a slight injury waiting to happen.
Curtis Jones doesn't convince me I'm afraid.
I think the player we are missing the most is a fully firing Bobby Firmino.

[Steveo]

We all want to see Bajcetic but could be a rude awakening for him in this setup. We look shite regardless of who is in there. Win lose or draw - we have no control in games at all. It’s a recipe for disaster. Also - goals - not just conceding them… where are they coming from…? When the front line are not scoring 3 or 4 goals a game it’s natural to find you concede more goals too. Teams are not scared to attack us with numbers. They are going after us. This is a part of the problem

[dicko1969]

So if the problem is not defence , nor attack ( both nunez and salah top the big missed chances league in epl 15 chances and 12) does that mean our first choice Henderson, Thiago, Fabinho not good enough ?
And keita and oxlade out.
Elliot not good enough , and not athletic enough for no8.
Do Liverpool need 6 new midfielders ?

[Crimson Dynasty]

Agree with that CD.
Our playing out from the back now is horrible. It just looks like a mistake in the making.
The midfield is affecting everything.

Every team seems to have figured us out with that tactic.

They just press us high and early knowing we can't handle that press and force the players to pass it all the way back to defense, where on of two things happens.
1) the side-to-side passing between the defenders and center-backs and occassionally Allisson, with absolutely nothing happening beyond that, while the other team waits to pounce on a mistake which is always inevitably there lurking among the brainfarts in any one of our back four. Or.....

2) we try to get out by playing it long hoping that either Mo or Nunez (or Diaz when he's healthy) can catch their defense napping or beat the trap to get in with a chance. Simply because we can't play through the middle as we lack the personnel for that (no existing box-to-box midfielder ala a Stevie G. who could drive the ball into the gut of their defense and was hard to get off the ball without fouling him. Gini came close but he was not it, either. we've never really had the Claude Makelele-type or Kante-type of midfield general who can marshall and control that midfield to allow us to do that)
Also because our previously reliable fullbacks to use to get the ball forward through the flanks are mostly hit-or-miss more recently.
So we just end up stuck, hogging possession but lacking any ideas or ability to break down a well-drilled team and defensive shell.
Meanwhile, any scraps they pick, they just send down (typically) Trent's wing and see if you can get some joy or a chance there and more often than not they get rewarded.

It's almost too easy (.....for them)

[Crimson Dynasty]

The problem is not the defence, it's the midfield. Stevie Wonder can see that we need at least two midfielders. So that the opposing teams are not just getting a free run at our back four.
I think we are bound to bring in a midfield player this window, despite what the noises are coming out of the club.
I agree we should play Bajcetic a lot now, almost like giving him the experience he would get if he was loaned out. Thiago played well in the last game, less well today, but you always feel he is a slight injury waiting to happen.
Curtis Jones doesn't convince me I'm afraid.
I think the player we are missing the most is a fully firing Bobby Firmino.

Oh, our defence is a problem.
We're conceding far too many chances this season to just label this as (just) a midfield issue.

We're not as tight and as coherent at the back as we used to be in previous seasons and some of that as has been noted has been down to Virgil's downturn in form since his return from his ACL injury.
Matip's on a surprisingly good vein of health and form (knock on wood), so it's no surprise that when healthy, he's our best defender. But problems even with our fullbacks means that even if we fix our midfield issues teams are still going to get a lot of chances if they get their tactics right against us (i.e. send the ball down Trent's wing. That's tactic #1 on every opposing team's playbook when playing against us.)


The midfield needs fixing, but our defensive shape (and probably personnel) also needs re-tooling.