Conceding goals.

[jozza800]

I just want to see one of the midfielders sit. Fabinho goes charging forward far too often. And it's not even always to chase a tackle. Leaves the centre halves and full backs massively exposed.

I know we don't have the same line up we used to and that we've got massive injury problems but we need to go back to some sort of semblance of what we were. There's no plan, it looks completely disjointed from front to back. The shape isn't right, the runs aren't right, the press isn't right, the passing is miles off.

The players quite rightly should get most of the stick, but Klopp has to carry some of the blame. There's enough good players in this squad for us to be better than we are.

[teesred]

I just want to see one of the midfielders sit. Fabinho goes charging forward far too often. And it's not even always to chase a tackle. Leaves the centre halves and full backs massively exposed.

I know we don't have the same line up we used to and that we've got massive injury problems but we need to go back to some sort of semblance of what we were. There's no plan, it looks completely disjointed from front to back. The shape isn't right, the runs aren't right, the press isn't right, the passing is miles off.

The players quite rightly should get most of the stick, but Klopp has to carry some of the blame. There's enough good players in this squad for us to be better than we are.

100%. Sums us up perfectly right now.

[miller0863]

Yep, pretty accurate assessment jozza. It occurred to me during the game that Brentford had a pretty simple plan but we’re implementing it to perfection, whereas we appeared to have no specific plan whatsoever, or indeed any idea how to stop their plan from taking the three points like men from boys.

[Insidious]

Do Liverpool need 6 new midfielders ?

The short answer is "no".

Some sides find a way to make themselves better than the sum of their individual parts. Right now we are playing worse than the sum of our individual parts. Thiago for example is a quality player, but the mould of mid that he is needs an energetic runner near him to compliment his play. Arguably the best midfield unit we have had in my time watching the club has been the Gerrard-Alonso-Mascherano trio and I'm sure that Alonso and Gerrard benefitted from the protection Masch gave for example.

Get one midfielder in who is the right fit (and reminds existing lads their place is under threat...) and that alone would make a difference. We need two of course - there's an argument for 3 honestly, though I am hoping two incoming transfers plus one of Bajcetic (this season) or Morton (next season) contributing from within would be a big, big lift.

[Steveo]

Agree Sid - but we need 3 mids in truth, one would work IF always fit and Thiago was always fit and even then for how long. He is no spring chicken. We need the 3 that should have come in over the last 4/5 seasons. Held onto Milner far too long - Keita should have been moved on after 18 months - Oxlade too should have been helped out the door long ago. Instead we have tried to muddle along with these players running Hendo, Thiago and Fabinho into the ground in the process.

[Steveo]

Midfield has been an oversight and it’s far too late to fix it in any one window now. All the while other areas have waned too. The front line is a shadow of what it was. You could put the midfield of 2019 in front of it now and we wouldn’t get close to 90 points never mind 97, that’s before we talk about Virgil. Let’s face it - unless he is on it 100% we drop 2 levels results wise. That was the case all along, the fact is - he is never at that level now.

These things all have a combined effect. People like to pick out one area - but it’s much bigger and it ultimately stems from that lack of a miracle Coutinho deal as a viable option every 2 years.

Klopp himself put that down as the big catalyst. Anyone with half a brain knows it too. £142 million to spend on a side that already had a world class front 3 - but needed a top level DM a WC CB to marshal the back line and a WC Keeper,

Check - got that…went out and bought top dollar players…: then won the big prizes and then did sweet fuck all. Behaved like Aston sodding Villa!

[dicko1969]

Sid , Steve, Mills , tees, jozza; am I being so dramatic.
Not so sure.
Like said , the £142m gave us a w old class goalkeeper and a world class centre back.
The huge success of Robbo, TAA , Matip for £8m .
Fabinho £42m Gini £25m Hendo (already there) Milner free.
Then Salah Bobby Mane for combined £96m net spend £171m .
A team that lasted 4 years together and still 10 out of 12 still here.

Here lies a problem. They've gotten older. Klopp of course a good manager stays loyal.
But klopps own success for more than 5 years has also caused hindrance to reform , renew.

[dicko1969]

Transformation after the epic last season.
What klopp has achieved only city and billions of £ have done something more yet Liverpool have been in 3 CL finals.
Anybody doubting klopp is insane.
Everyone also points the finger at fsg.
Who , like practically most clubs in Europe, have to compete against multi billionaire oil rich clubs like city .
Fsg have brought and invested in Liverpool success on and off the pitch. Renewed the stadium. New training facilities.
We seem to forget how much has changed in the last 10 years.
So many positives.
The transfer market has become insanely expensive. Neymar and €222m pushed the limits yet further.
Players that 10 years ago were £10m or £15m are now £35m
That's crazy money. Yet the values just keep going up .
The club probably now needs to 'invest' £220m+ on a few new players. Wow.
£220m on 3 players.
Preferably 3 midfielders at least .

[scientificred]

Liverpool have conceded 51 big chances this season, according to Opta. That is more than twice as many as the five teams above them in the Premier League table. Massive issue.

[Insidious]

A team that lasted 4 years together and still 10 out of 12 still here.

Here lies a problem. They've gotten older. Klopp of course a good manager stays loyal.
But klopps own success for more than 5 years has also caused hindrance to reform , renew.

We do need renewal, particularly in the middle of the park. Some of it will depend on how we want to play

Take a club like Real Madrid - they have shown you can keep a core group of lads together for a long spell, provided you refresh around them too.

For us, if we are going to hang onto a reasonable chunk of the established group (Alisson, Matip, Van Dijk, Trent, Robertson, Fabinho, Henderson, Salah, Firmino) then you need to do one of the following -

- Alter the way we play (which we have been trying to do it seems, unsuccessfully) so that lads with years of hard running in the legs aren't being depended on to exhibit more athleticism than opposition sides full of younger, less battle-worn players, surrounding them with "legs" via new recruits to help out.

OR

- Decide that Klopp's Liverpool 1.0 is our best way forward and begin replacing lads who can't run like that anymore, whilst scrapping the attempts to have the midfield play wider etc.

We're a bit "nothing" to watch right now - we aren't Klopp's 1.0 edition and seemingly 2.0 edition won't install, so we're a 1.4 edition if you like, neither here nor there. Often at the moment I watch and I think "what are we even trying to do here?" and that's not a good sign.

Yes, some lads are injured. Yes, some lads know their contracts are expiring and probably aren't giving it their all. Yes, the star of some lads is sadly waning and yes, adjusting to a post-Mane environment was never going to be easy.

Still think we should be doing better with what we have at our disposal. We're not a 90-97 points side, but the squad we have should - SHOULD mind you - be capable of finishing above Newcastle or Man United and getting 72-77 points in the process - then adding mids to help us rise again.