Fsg out #2

[Steveo]

Who won the last Champions League - Liverpool or Chelsea…? In fact which side won the last major trophy?

If you were asked in 2020 - who will the next 2 Premier League Champions league winners be - who would you have nominated?

Come on - even with Klopp around Chelsea were going to take plenty of big wins until the club was all but shut down.

Henry could be a hero here still - just has to loosen those purse strings before Klopp and his golden profit sails away.

BUT until then / expect more attempts to sell off chunks of the club to unknown entities, to generate the funds for his expansionist ventures.

17 points ahead of Chelsea after 20 games,
Is there any wavering in your position that the top4 race between lfc and Chelsea is still active.

54 points to play for both clubs now.

Chelsea look like a failed state. Few if any could have predicted they would do close to as badly as they have. JUST as few would have predicted our detritus of a season last term following 92 points an FA Cup, League Cup and Champions league final.

Some did suggest that a changing of ownership would keep them in check for a while but I am sure after spending what they have - nobody felt they could be so far off it,

But what exactly are you reducing this to? Our net spend isn’t really weak compared to our league rivals because Chelsea are having a mare?

I get that you will try to deflect criticism of Henry - it’s a pattern, choosing instead to blame all manner of other elements including Klopp himself … I get that - but I am stumped as to why you are dragging Chelsea’s continuing woes into it.

They had the most meteoric rise to the very top of the game and a winning formula with one owner and have seemingly ripped up the playbook after in wake of the guts being ripped out off the club.

Not sure why they warrant mention

[CCTV]

So the squad that missed out on the quad suddenly had an old over the hill midfield did it. In one summer? No vision…

For me it was more evidence of a Lack of available funds. Think back to the summer before… and we bought nobody but a France under 21 CB…a year after letting Senior CB Lovren go without a replacement.

These things have cost in the bust seasons and limited our potential in the winning seasons.

The recruitment has been good - the coaching and management. has been excellent BUT even with a giant like Jürgen - you always risk missing out and boom/ bust when you focus on the bottom line more than taking the risk. Back him fully and I am sure you know - we are 20 or 21 and 7. That’s all - nobody asking for Romans levels or Mansours levels - just not to pinch at every turn. Only time we ever went big - with Klopp - post Coutinho sale - look what happened.

First line:
Unlike your pressing me to answer if we'd finish above Chelsea during the summer, only to post they had fallen off a cliff under their current ownership....
Your selection of words is poor whist tyring to avoid replying. Poor form, but I'll oblige and reply.

The quad squad was a great squad. Even real had Eden Hazard in theirs iirc. It had a few issues.

The primary one Ox & Keita both reasonably expensive & on high enough wages. Not moving them on last summer was a calamity. Them leaving this summer for no cash, a massive boost to my morale. I can't recall too much of Klopps credit in 21/22 being given to them.
Long term issue these 2, recouped 0 and had less to reinvest. Clearly Klopp had high hopes for them and was fond of both. If keita had a upturn last season, I wouldn't have been shocked to see him get a contact extension from Klopp.

Hendo & Fab were ageing as everyone does, but playing well in 21/22. In 22/23 they dropped off a bit and Klopp saw both move to Saudi.
As said, Klopps adapting only occurred at the very end of the season.
When he finally adapted to something new, we hit great form and finished the season strong just missing out on top4. Klopps first underperforming season.

Now, why were you asking me about Toddys Chelsea finishing above us this year in the top4, if they've fallen off a cliff under big spending Toddy.

I've given you JWH spend since 2013/14, and broken down roughly speaking Chelsea under Roman & Toddy.
I've shown JWH LFC and Romans cfc net spend per season are rather comparable.
I've shown how Roman was a much meaner spender than Todd.

By my position, relatively low net-spending clubs are better run than bigger net spending clubs. Klopp seems to think so. Its how he likes his club to be run.

[CCTV]

Who won the last Champions League - Liverpool or Chelsea…? Chelsea In fact which side won the last major trophy? same Chelsea CL win - you only count PL or CL as majors

If you were asked in 2020 - who will the next 2 Premier League Champions league winners be - who would you have nominated?
City or Us

Come on - even with Klopp around Chelsea were going to take plenty of big wins until the club was all but shut down.

Henry could be a hero here still - just has to loosen those purse strings before Klopp and his golden profit sails away.

BUT until then / expect more attempts to sell off chunks of the club to unknown entities, to generate the funds for his expansionist ventures.



Chelsea look like a failed state. Few if any could have predicted they would do close to as badly as they have. JUST as few would have predicted our detritus of a season last term following 92 points an FA Cup, League Cup and Champions league final.

Some did suggest that a changing of ownership would keep them in check for a while but I am sure after spending what they have - nobody felt they could be so far off it,

But what exactly are you reducing this to? Our net spend isn’t really weak compared to our league rivals because Chelsea are having a mare?

I get that you will try to deflect criticism of Henry - it’s a pattern, choosing instead to blame all manner of other elements including Klopp himself … I get that - but I am stumped as to why you are dragging Chelsea’s continuing woes into it.

They had the most meteoric rise to the very top of the game and a winning formula with one owner and have seemingly ripped up the playbook after in wake of the guts being ripped out off the club.

Not sure why they warrant mention

Last line & bolded para:
You told me we couldn't be compared to Real, and you've proposed pl top 6 clubs can be, and Roman is your sweetheart. Your go to big spenders and football lover.
Then I provided the figures for the last decade on the stats you introduced for the clubs you felt were comparable.

I've given my position explicitly, excluded no clubs.

Lfc & city, coupled with Unique Madrid make up the top3 teams in recent years.
Lfc & city posting the most points in the PL & across Europe's top5.

I'll answer 3 more of your silly questions above, with 2 answers

[JockStrap]

At least you seem to agree, I am the Victor:

as we would surely have been more often had Klopp been afforded more than "paying bills" and a net profit in summer 2019. We would surely have been the Victors more often and less likely to suffer the disaster of title defence - and would surely have managed to be more Victorious in pursuit of the quad had the preceding summer not looked like this:

Players IN:

Ibrahima Konate (£36m, RB Leipzig)

Players OUT:

Georginio Wijnaldum (free, Paris Saint-Germain)
Adam Lewis (loan, Livingston)
Sepp van den Berg (loan, Preston North End)
Paul Glatzel (loan, Tranmere Rovers)
Liam Coyle (free, Accrington Stanley)
Joe Hardy (free, Accrington Stanley)
Marko Grujic (£10.5m, Porto)
Taiwo Awoniyi (£6.75m, Union Berlin)
Harry Wilson (£12.6m, Fulham)
Ben Davies (loan, Sheffield United)
Leighton Clarkson (loan, Blackburn Rovers)
Xherdan Shaqiri (£5.4m, Lyon)
Ben Woodburn (loan, Hearts)
Rhys Williams (loan, Swansea City)
Luis Longstaff (loan, Queens Park Rangers)
Jake Cain (loan, Newport County)
Sheyi Ojo (loan, Millwall)

Liverpool total spent to date: £36m
Liverpool total received to date: £35.25m

Liverpool net transfer balance: -£850k


and would certainly have been more Victorious last term had the summer after the almost quad been a little more explosive than this:

Players IN:

Darwin Nunez – Benfica – £85m
Fabio Carvalho – Fulham – £7.7m
Calvin Ramsay – Aberdeen – £6.5m
Arthur Juventus – Loan
Cody Gakpo – PSV – £37m

Spent: £136.2m

Players OUT:

Sadio Mane – Bayern Munich – £35.1m
Neco Williams – Nottingham Forest – £17m
Takumi Minamino – Monaco – £15.5m
Ben Davies – Rangers – £4m
Divock Origi – AC Milan – Free
Tom Clayton – Swindon – N/A
Jake Cain – Swindon – N/A

Received: £71.6m


Liverpool net transfer balance: £65m


But who is to say? Some seem to be saying it's a bonus and a good thing... that despite record profits the best manager on the planet is best served with less at his disposal. It's a strange concept in the extreme.

That's only LFC spend. The minimum work needed for your point to be relevant is to compare that against our main rivals in the league (apart from City) and show how them spending more led to more success. Just do Chelsea, Utd, Spurs and Arsenal if you want. But do something.

[JockStrap]

Well hello there Mr. Purvis...

Hi Justine.

If you've got anything useful to add to the debate we'd all love to read it.

[JockStrap]

Crickets.

As suspected Victor's feeling in his water didnae stand th' slightest scrunity.

Let's pat this idea that FSG haven't spent enough tae bed 'n' move oan. Tis naive kids stuff.

[Steveo]

the water is high
There's a soft cotton dress on the line hangin' dry

Dylan… Forget Crickets - you’re nuts…

That's only LFC spend. The minimum work needed for your point to be relevant is to compare that against our main rivals in the league (apart from City) and show how them spending more led to more success. Just do Chelsea, Utd, Spurs and Arsenal if you want. But do something.

Readable at last. You see it can be done.

You seem to be stuck in a mode of thinking, unable to recognise or accept the reality that none of the clubs you mention have a manager even close to the calibre of Jurgen Klopp. The instant our irrefutably low spend is mentioned you ask - ah but what have the rivals won in comparison. What in the living fook has that got to do with the tools at Jurgens disposal?

This is completely missing the point.

We have a manager that saw Dortmund get the better of Bayern even with Pep Guardiola as manager. Was that due t Dortmund’s outstanding owners? How have they fared since he departed?


You just refuse to accept the facts.

[JockStrap]

You just refuse to accept the facts.

If ye ever present ony facts tae back up yer claims, ah kin decide whither tae accept thaim or not.

Until then, tis juist naive kids arguing in th' playground.

[Steveo]

Certainly there is 1 naive child. Someone who refuses to act like an adult. Switching the goals posts and then switching the language.

If Jurgen isn’t then who else from the clubs you want to compare (you excluded City) has had a manager of the same calibre as Jurgen Klopp in situ for 7 years?

And then back to the original facts. The net spend compared to all top 6 rivals..

Is nicely listed out for you in this link:

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/the-premier-league-big-sixs-net-spent-per-trophy-over-the-last-10-years

1. Manchester United

Transfer expenditure: €1.79billion
Transfer income: €465.74million
Net spend: €1326.42milion

Trophies won: 4
Net spend per trophy: €331.6million

2. Arsenal

Transfer expenditure: €1.38billion
Transfer income: €386.05million
Net spend: €995.72million

Trophies won: 4
Net spend per trophy: €248.93million

3. Chelsea

Transfer expenditure: €2.37billion
Transfer income: €1.38billion
Net spend: €992.41million

Trophies won: 8
Net spend per trophy: €124.05million

4. Liverpool

Transfer expenditure: €1.22billion
Transfer income: €769.67million
Net spend: €451.86million

Trophies won: 6
Net spend per trophy: €75.31million

5. Manchester City

Transfer expenditure: €1.79billion
Transfer income: €724.30million
Net spend: €1065.52million

Trophies won: 15
Net spend per trophy: €71.03million

6. Tottenham

Transfer expenditure: €1.17billion
Transfer income: €694.02million
Net spend: €480.91million

Trophies won: 0
Net spend per trophy: N/A

[JockStrap]

That's a good start to the debate. You've shown the net spend per club and the trophies won. Now you need to show how if each of those clubs had spent just a little more they would have won more. That's your criticism of FSG.

PS there has been no moving of the goal posts. This is my original challenge to you.

OK Victor, if you want to debate this properly and in good faith (you don't), there'a a minimum amount of work you need to do to back up your argument.

Take Man City out of the equation for now. What you need to do is analyse the spending of every other team in the league, or just our main competitiors if you want, and show the causation between their owners spending more leading to the club winning more. That way, you can put forward a case that if only FSG had spent some more we might have won more.