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Thread: Your team v Atalanta second keg

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    The bolded part almost looks like you think I've been posting to that effect.

    Here's what I have posted on injuries elsewhere. Doubt you'll find me going on about tippy tappy v million miles an hour football. Peps barca worked their arses off, as did Spain with great players.

    1) I've given good marathon times, 5000 m etc times, for elite to average and beginners Then converted our players typical load of distance over time in a 90 minute game. And iirc pointed to the average distance covered of our players being equivalent to the Lower end of performance and higher than any pro footballers age range.
    Football isn't too demanding in terms of load per 90. It does have a stop start nature and sprints.

    Bradley for example has 22 appearances over 1,185 minutes
    Or 13.11 * 90 minute matches
    The majority of those minutes are since new years
    It's the 16th week of the year.
    So all those minutes... he's less than 90 minutes a week on average.
    The idea he's been run into the ground seems weak.

    2) I've suggested maximising our squads strengths through tactical/formation adapting would be most pleasing and efficient.
    Given Emre & Gini at cb in a back 3, like Palace just gone as 1 example.
    See the link for the 11 that day, 4 centre mids & 1 CB in a 3421
    https://www.transfermarkt.com/brighton-amp-hove-albion_liverpool-fc/index/spielbericht/2872257

    The idea here is, as posted in previous seasons, is you adapt to minimise exposure to areas with few options and utilise the abundances elsewhere by picking a formation to suit.
    If you don't adapt & optimise, you end up playing certain players too much and others don't get enough minutes.
    At present the Klopp complaint I believe is MacA & Endo playing too much. As though no other options exist.
    A back 3 is an option, double pivot with one playing/starting, 4231.

    I'd say I'm rarely complaining about injuries, tend to believe the quality in the squad is much higher than many give it credit for. I do adore Klopp but don't buy into the pedestaling and criticse where appropriate.
    More recently we smashed sparta and didn't rest key players. Was an opportunity to rest. Now everyone's saying they look spent cause of the style of play, top level football.
    Slated the recent united game and have pointed out that we've scored more goals in the PL in 2024 than in 2023, whilst we've been conceding more goals in 2024 than in 2023. And been conceding early and first. Rarely down to tiredness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    As far as I can see - The last few posts exhibit perfectly why there have been zero English managers to win a Premier league - OR any major league for that matter across Europe.

    Focussing literally on instances or passages of play rather than the overall quality and technique of the player - the short pass - ability to retain possession without just passing the buck Hendo style.

    ..Not oneÖ

    A love of the rather primitive AngloSaxon/Celtic/Nordic philosophy that simply doesnít perform well at the highest level.

    To watch but not see

    It is astounding that so many managers placed in and around what is deemed the biggest and best league in world football - and we are still waiting for a single winner inside - what is it - 40 yearsÖ?
    Fascinating reply.

    A poor categorisation of my comments, and a failure to address points on topic to your charge.

    Continuing on with this tippy tippy v 100 million miles an hour football, based on one ethnicity not producing top managers.

    Fergie, Wenger, Rafa, Jose, Klopp, Pep...

    Are these all examples of foreign tippy tippy v 100 million miles an hour football.

    Seems you're starting with this lazy dichotomy, and making a poor argument that English managers fail due to their playing 100 million miles an hour like Klopp

    You often put yourself in a group opposed to others, where you are more fitting of the opposite group than you think.
    Want some examples

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jozza800 View Post
    I can see Klopp putting out a strong side.

    He (and we) will be hoping he can stir up one of those crazy 20mins we have from time to time.

    If we gte the first goal anything could happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by ianlfc View Post
    We're more than capable of pulling it off, get a goal inside the first 20 minutes and take it from there.
    We've had a week to work on dealing with them, agree it ain't over yet.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    Fascinating reply.

    A poor categorisation of my comments, and a failure to address points on topic to your charge.

    Continuing on with this tippy tippy v 100 million miles an hour football, based on one ethnicity not producing top managers.

    Fergie, Wenger, Rafa, Jose, Klopp, Pep...

    Are these all examples of foreign tippy tippy v 100 million miles an hour football.

    Seems you're starting with this lazy dichotomy, and making a poor argument that English managers fail due to their playing 100 million miles an hour like Klopp

    You often put yourself in a group opposed to others, where you are more fitting of the opposite group than you think.
    Want some examples
    2 things CC..

    1. It isn't a categorisation of your comments whatsoever as I didn't reply to you..

    2. Klopp has won the premier league and did so NOT by playing 10o million mile an hour football exclusively AND crucially has since tried multiple times to change tact. He recognised the fact that it is killing successive squads.

    A point you seem unable to face.

  4. #54
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    [QUOTE=Steveo;2827606]As far as I can see - The last few posts exhibit perfectly why there have been zero English managers to win a Premier league - OR any major league for that matter across Europe.

    Focussing literally on instances or passages of play rather than the overall quality and technique of the player - the short pass - ability to retain possession without just passing the buck/QUOTE]

    The things you mention I havenít mentioned are things that are a very obvious pre-requisite of any professional footballer

    Passing the buck is what too many are doing now, playing short simple nothing passes for their stats without reallly ever trying to make something happen Itís far easier for players to hide in a forced short game

  5. #55
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    You said:

    The thing is - so many of you (you and CC in particular - who love your million mile an hour football over tippy tappy crappy) seem to have forgotten what happens when you are fatigued or stretched from too many consecutive games and too many hard miles (in this case on a young lad who would never have played at this intensity and level for so long) .
    That was you starting off, referencing me in particluar.

    You've had no reply to my post since, duly noted.

    You have come back with

    2. Klopp has won the premier league and did so NOT by playing 10o million mile an hour football exclusively AND crucially has since tried multiple times to change tact. He recognised the fact that it is killing successive squads.
    Can you please clarify

    A) Who does play 100 million mile an hour football, or exclusively
    Which English managers embody a blitzkrieg approach 🤔

    B) if Klopp doesn't play this style exclusively is he looking to eradicate it, or minimise it and to what extent

    For me
    Top teams play at the highest intensity and Klopp has been in the top 3 world sides for his tenure. Dropped out on occasion perhaps but on average he's been thwarted by City & Real over this era.

  6. #56
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    I think the point Steveo omits is neither CCTV or I dislike effective tappy crappy, it takes time & a different way of coaching to work on getting consistent good movement combined with short interplay &the best short game sides are successful in part because they do & can switch up to go more direct for spells and they play at 100 mph in the zipping the ball about

    So many teams are so well practices in pressing & counter pressing g to a high level in the modern game that walking pace or strolling tappy crappy isnít doable anymore

    City press & counter press & keep good counter pressing positions not overcommitting in attacks throughout even though they dominate the ball & mix it up playing direct too

  7. #57
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    I am suggesting that both of you fail to see why our squad keeps being destroyed by injury.

    Rafa with fewer options chose to rest and rotate for this very reason. He almost won 2 European Cups against a top level Milan side - taking it in 2005 and coming so close to beating what I consider Unitedís best ever side in 2009.

    I am suggesting that Klopp has tried to solve the problem but hasnít had the funds or the fortune.

    i think Klopp is amazing as a manager the best around at this time - capable of getting a side which was never the best even domestically to 3 European Cup finals and winning over 90 points on at least 3 occasions. I would still fancy Rafaís Liverpool to knock him out over 2 legs however - probably every time.

  8. #58
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    Turn this tie around & weíll have the momentum to finish the season really well you feel

  9. #59
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    Right then, letís fucking have this

    Alisson

    Trent Konate Van Dijk Robertson

    Szoboslai Mac Allister Jones

    Jota

    Salah________Nunez

    Love us to go for it old school Jurgen style LCM & RCM supporting Robbo & Trent to play high & wide so we always have numbers in midfield

    Jota putting himself about & arriving in the box in timely fashion to score 2 or 3

    Mo & Nunez taking that awkward as fuck position for defences playing off them a little & mixing it to runs in behind & inside out & outside in runs from there & bagging a goal each at least

    Be absolutely brilliant if we get ourselves through

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    I am suggesting that both of you fail to see why our squad keeps being destroyed by injury.

    Rafa with fewer options chose to rest and rotate for this very reason. He almost won 2 European Cups against a top level Milan side - taking it in 2005 and coming so close to beating what I consider Unitedís best ever side in 2009.

    I am suggesting that Klopp has tried to solve the problem but hasnít had the funds or the fortune.

    i think Klopp is amazing as a manager the best around at this time - capable of getting a side which was never the best even domestically to 3 European Cup finals and winning over 90 points on at least 3 occasions. I would still fancy Rafaís Liverpool to knock him out over 2 legs however - probably every time.
    You said

    "The thing is - so many of you (you and CC in particular - who love your million mile an hour football over tippy tappy crappy) seem to have forgotten what happens when you are fatigued or stretched from too many consecutive games and too many hard miles (in this case on a young lad who would never have played at this intensity and level for so long)"

    I don't recall ever using this phrase, or expressed anything to that effect.

    You didn't reply to my post on my actual views.

    And haven't answered a question put to you more recently for clarity.

    One last point regards Bradley

    Bradley 23/24 season
    22 games & 1,485 minutes
    67.5 minutes per appearance
    30/11/23 to 14/4/24
    20 week season
    74.25 minutes per week

    Trent 18/19 season (same age)
    40 games & 3,338 minutes
    83.45 minutes per appearance
    12/8/18 to 1/6/19
    46 week season
    72.6 minutes per week

    Trent played 2.24 times the minutes that season and was playing longer per appearance.
    Bradley has played 1.65 minutes more per week.

    Maybe if you presented your x milion miles an hour assessment of Klopps LFC in 18/19 & his reduced rate in 23/24, perhaps we could see if Trents lesser minutes per week was actually a greater load/burden...

    It seems Klopps treated them rather similarly

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