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First Team
Jared Kushner has said that his middle east peace plan is a great opportunity for Palestine and that the Palestinians have blown every chance they have had for peace in the past. I think the Israelis have done a pretty good job of ruining peace in the middle east for the last 70 years but hey don't let the truth get in the way
...shows his class...
Following the introduction of the corona virus, do you think it is possible that people living in Asia might refrain from killing and/or eating every living thing on the planet?
YNWA
Getting a bit worried now
Just shows how fragile our superficial life is... based on markets
The tulip crash
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutch_tulip_bulb_market_bubble.asp
The Dutch tulip bulb market bubble, also known as 'tulipmania' was one of the most famous market bubbles and crashes of all time. It occurred in Holland during the early to mid 1600s when speculation drove the value of tulip bulbs to extremes. At the height of the market, the rarest tulip bulbs traded for as much as six times the average person's annual salary
Koala tea
No bother, I fished out some notes on the year, co2 level and associated temperature rises if you'd like them. Then using a 450ppm projection for 2040 extrapolated to get a ppm level for 2100. Then used a rough estimate based on the record to make a prediction.Originally Posted by Balinkay
Cheers for the reply CC, I might go into more detail in time.
Overall I don't think we particularly differ on our opinions of buzz words like "green new deal" - it's a load of bollocks. "Uk carbon neutral by 2030" - sure, maybe when pigs fly. The whole "you're white, therefore you're at fault" is just… wow. It fucks like that giving us young people a bad name.
I do agree about your point on wisdom being accumulated with age and that people are maturing later. I think that's been the overall trend for a good while now. My point wasn't that kids should be allowed to vote - just that their efforts to change something can only be judged at least a decade after they've had multiple elections they could significantly impact.
On your CO2 predictions - I'll take your word for it. Iirc one of the issues is a snowballing of global temperature increases. For example the Siberian permafrost melting and releasing hundreds of billions of tonnes of methane (?) into the atmosphere, which is an order or two of magnitude more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2. Maybe other scary sounding things like that play a role in the "+3 deg" predictions?
I think one thing is for certain - the world is getting hotter at a very rapid pace. We'd all like to go green and have zero emissions, but the way to go about bringing that change is not chanting NAZI NAZI in front of BoJo's office. We're in this together. It's not us vs them, it's us vs the problem.
We're not far off a doubling by 2100.
Yeah, increased polarisation and nonsense identity politics stuff ain't very productive.
The point about the young is fair, though it doesn't sit to well with me tbh.
I've read about that too Bali, the permafrost. But in the literature I've read it always goes on about Co2 and rarely concerned with methane.
Perhaps due to co2 existing for ages, whereas methane only exists for a short while (8 years iirc) before weathering to Co2. So while the permafrost is a risk factor, it would seem it would be a short lived increase before becoming a co2 problem. The longer term impact were it to melt would be land change.
As that fella in the youtube video said, theres a high demand for bad news and funding/notoriety/headlines to be got.
The bigger scale catastrophe I read in new scientist years back was, ice melts, water more dense, more pressure on plates, more potential volcanic and seismic activity.
But with reporting on warming oceans its increased acidification and threat to sea life, like corals (albeit that expert suggested otherwise and there are other factors at play with corals). Warming oceans, less dense than colder oceans, less pressure on plates, reducing volcanic and seismic activity doesn't get published with it.
With politicization you just get more politically sought reporting.
Here's a NASA model, just one model but from the astrophysicist nerds.
"A new NASA computer modeling effort has found that additional growth of plants and trees in a world with doubled atmospheric carbon dioxide levels would create a new negative feedback – a cooling effect – in the Earth's climate system that could work to reduce future global warming.
The cooling effect would be -0.3 degrees Celsius (C) (-0.5 Fahrenheit (F)) globally and -0.6 degrees C (-1.1 F) over land, compared to simulations where the feedback was not included, said Lahouari Bounoua, of Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. Bounoua is lead author on a paper detailing the results that will be published Dec. 7 in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.
Without the negative feedback included, the model found a warming of 1.94 degrees C globally when carbon dioxide was doubled......... (add on the new feedback and you have a doubling of co2 at 1.64 degrees and closer to the historical record to date - me )................
When there is more carbon dioxide available, plants are able to use less water yet maintain previous levels of photosynthesis. The process is called "down-regulation." This more efficient use of water and nutrients has been observed in experimental studies and can ultimately lead to increased leaf growth........
Scientists agree that in a world where carbon dioxide has doubled – a standard basis for many global warming modeling simulations – temperature would increase from 2 to 4.5 degrees C (3.5 to 8.0 F). (The model used in this study found warming – without incorporating the plant feedback – on the low end of this range.) The uncertainty in that range is mostly due to uncertainty about "feedbacks" – how different aspects of the Earth system will react to a warming world, and then how those changes will either amplify (positive feedback) or dampen (negative feedback) the overall warming.
An example of a positive feedback would be if warming temperatures caused forests to grow in the place of Arctic tundra. The darker surface of a forest canopy would absorb more solar radiation than the snowy tundra, which reflects more solar radiation. The greater absorption would amplify warming. The vegetative feedback modeled in this research, in which increased plant growth would exert a cooling effect, is an example of a negative feedback. The feedback quantified in this study is a result of an interaction between all these aspects: carbon dioxide enrichment, a warming and moistening climate, plants' more efficient use of water, down-regulation and the ability for leaf growth.
(Theres not too much more in the linked article,.so.worth a quick look - me. My initial basic math looked at the temp increase per ppm and was closer than my original posting on the matter but still below this models.
So far the higher end of predicted outcomes have been less accurate than lower ones from what I've seen)
https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/cooling-plant-growth.html
Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds.
From a quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Climate Change on April 25.
An international team of 32 authors from 24 institutions in eight countries led the effort, which involved using satellite data from NASA’s Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectrometer and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer instruments to help determine the leaf area index, or amount of leaf cover, over the planet’s vegetated regions. The greening represents an increase in leaves on plants and trees equivalent in area to two times the continental United States.......
carbon dioxide fertilization isn’t the only cause of increased plant growth—nitrogen, land cover change and climate change by way of global temperature, precipitation and sunlight changes all contribute to the greening effect. To determine the extent of carbon dioxide’s contribution, researchers ran the data for carbon dioxide and each of the other variables in isolation through several computer models that mimic the plant growth observed in the satellite data.
Results showed that carbon dioxide fertilization explains 70 percent of the greening effect, said co-author Ranga Myneni, a professor in the Department of Earth and Environment at Boston University. “The second most important driver is nitrogen, at 9 percent. So we see what an outsized role CO2 plays in this process.”.......
About 85 percent of Earth’s ice-free lands is covered by vegetation. The area covered by all the green leaves on Earth is equal to, on average, 32 percent of Earth’s total surface area - oceans, lands and permanent ice sheets combined. The extent of the greening over the past 35 years “has the ability to fundamentally change the cycling of water and carbon in the climate system,” said lead author Zaichun Zhu, a researcher from Peking University, China, who did the first half of this study with Myneni as a visiting scholar at Boston University.
Every year, about half of the 10 billion tons of carbon emitted into the atmosphere from human activities remains temporarily stored, in about equal parts, in the oceans and plants. “While our study did not address the connection between greening and carbon storage in plants, other studies have reported an increasing carbon sink on land since the 1980s, which is entirely consistent with the idea of a greening Earth,” said co-author Shilong Piao of the College of Urban and Environmental Sciences at Peking University...
(Again not much more in the article so worth a quick read - me)
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth
In the global warming/climate change thread I posted/linked about fish, bony fish - the ones we eat and overfish - as 'solving the mystery re calcium carbonate cycle' iirc.
That these fish filter co2 from the ocean and produce calcium carbonate like 'poops' which can be another means of offsetting acidification and scrubbing co2. Iirc 60% are at risk or on the brink of decline and 30% are already in decline. So they are another area where if fishing were to be curtailed another carbon sink could be grown.
Then theres the Allen Savoury talk about using cattle/sheep managed herds to mimic wildlife to reverse/stop climate change and desertification. Much like wolves being introduced in yellow stone. Herds play a vital role in maintaining soils.
On the tech side you have the zero emissions gas plant where they use the typically exhaust fumes to tun turbines and store the pollutants. It's on youtube and easy enough to find, the engineers quite complimentary about not losing efficiency iirc. Some criticism about those waste products being used in attaining more fossil fuels but iirc some Jewish tram have developed a bacteria that can breakdown those waste products. Another team using (I can't remember
The world is getting warmer but at current levels by the end of the century we could well see less warming than what we saw in the recent past from 1880 onwards. This would fit the established logarithmic theory of co2 and warming.
We have a greater capacity to reduce those projected co2 levels by using the natural environment more sensibly and taking advantage of it. My prescription more trees, more plants, eat herd animals, stop eating fish, reclaim soils and sequester more co2 via top soil creation with herds. If you look at that Allen Savoury ted talk and the potential to green desertified/ying lands there's a very big carbon sink at play and lying idle in a sense. Whilst tech avenues can play their part.
Last edited by CCTV; 8th May 2020 at 11:39 AM.
...shows his class...
How is the plundering of the Brazilian rain forest likely to affect the climate if its not curtailed?
I imagine there to be other areas with similar forestation.
The reduction in carbon vehicles may be offset, imo, by the need to produce the electricity required. We're very far away I think from renewable energy.
Any idea of the make-up of electricity production across the globe?
Coal/other forms of carbon, nuclear, wind and water.
First Team
"When the looting starts, The shooting starts"
First Team
Very lyrical but so far it seems to be only rubber bullets. I expect to hear the words powder keg and tinder box.
First Team
It's mad. That officer is better off 6 foot under as while he's in jail he'll be fucking tortured (literally ) and righty so , to say he's a animal is doing a disservice to animals.
Unfortunately the looters are wrecking their own areas and giving themselves a bad name and it's taking the eyes of the world away from the bigger picture.
First Team
What I find weird. Is this cop as now been arrested because of the rioting etc.. Where as he should have been arrested before it started.. Justice should have been done already. How people die from being detained in the first place is beyond me any way.
Seems to happen way to frequent in the US. And sadly lot of them people are black.
Cleaning up the Scots since the 13th century
First Team
The US is one messed up country. Thank fuck I don't live there
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