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Millions of people left Wuhan to travel all over the world. from November/January and then returned.. Yet they have only had 89 thousand cases in China. from what i am reading here. with a death rate of just over 4000 thousand.. the numbers do not stack up at all.
Cleaning up the Scots since the 13th century
I'm not sure if anyone is capable of hearing the scientific evidence, but there are now over 30 studies that show lockdowns have little or no effect on mortality outcomes. I'd like to start singing it to the whole forum every time someone starts going on about how badly we've handled it, how we reacted too slow or how people don't seem to be observing the rules strictly enough.
I think there are three leading indicators for mortality (these are my views, I'm not claiming they represent scientific truth, although I have seen good evidence for them), which account for 'success' or 'failure' in the face of Covid-19.
1) metabolic health.
This is one key reason for China's success, but also for the rest of the East. They don't eat much sugar over there (at least the elderly don't) and we in the west have very poor metabolic health and related heart disease. I think one study showed the USA has about 50% of the population who are technically diabetic, measured a certain way. There is a metabolic component to vitamin D production and the elderly in Japan are lightyears ahead of us on this front, for example.
The Somalis in Sweden did very badly with Covid and they have poverty, poor diet and insufficient sunlight for their skin phenotype which made them vulnerable.
The exception (in Asia) seems to be India, who have done relatively badly, and they are mad for sugar.
2) Pre-existing immunity.
There is plenty of this but it seems to be higher in Asia due to more exposure to coronaviruses. It's possible that China is exceptionally exposed to this kind of coronavirus. An interesting antibody study in Tokyo showed people were making contact with the virus in line with an epidemic but that they weren't getting ill.
3) Demographics.
The elderly and frail are the ones who are dying. The West is over populated with this group. The Japanese have the elderly but they are less frail. Sweden had a higher death rate than Norway in part because they had had a lower death rate for two seasons and so they had the larger frail group ready to succumb to the grim reaper.
This disease is considerably kinder to the young than almost all flu viruses in history.
I'll say it again, there is no number 4) observance of lockdown. No matter how much it seems to be about what the government is doing, that just isn't true. I know we want it to be true, but it isn't. It's not because of what the Tories did, it's not because of Trump and it won't be because of Biden.
Just to be clear. It's not because people aren't wearing their masks.
@ those who seem certain that China is lying..
Surely the rest of east Asia are all lying too then? Thailand @ 60 deaths - Taiwan at 7... yep that’s 7 and Cambodia at ..... drum roll.... 0 - Or is it only communist China..???
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ses-deaths-low
I think China is on everyones radar as that is where the virus is supposed to have come from.
As for the others do I believe em not really do you ?
I wouldnt say I believe any govt around the world totally but as I said if lockdown is wrong why would most of the world do that if it has no impact.
Comrade Steveo reporting for duty!
Etiam si omnes, ego non
haaa the Guardian.. I wouldnt wipe my arse of that far left woke newspaper
Cleaning up the Scots since the 13th century
So are you disputing those numbers? Doesn't seem like the Guardian is making them up - you can find the same numbers from many sources. Nobody is arguing that mortality is far lower in east Asia as it seems to be reliably informed.
Are you also suggesting that New Zealand are lying? - Perhaps Australia too? Different demographics and both can point to closing borders to differing degrees.
Would you believe what you read in the Daily Mail for instance..
AND - The Guardian may well be woke - but it is most definitely not far left in the slightest. See the "treatment" Corbyn got.
Come on - what you know about it - is what you hear on the telly..
Ive not been TOLD anything lets just say they have a better diet than Europe fair enough, but they are15-20 times the population here at least.
We have had 100k plus deaths they have had around 5k.
You are entitled to your opinion but those figures above dont add up to me.
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