Nat Philips

[scientificred]

Not getting Matip back into the starting line up in place of Gomez as soon as he was fit and available again last season, major error, as you're alluding too, Gomez might be quicker than Matip, but Matip is a far superior defender than Gomez will ever be and a time served vastly more experienced defender and you need that nous when you're playing a side like Atletico in the Champions League quarter final, and that extra ability at set pieces in both boxes

Jurgen seems to like the high line, I don't think it needs to be as high, but when we're chasing a result and a last minute winner and push both full backs high, it has to be high

Yes but you're missing the point on this, we have tweaked and developed how we play and belatedly managed to find form rhythm and confidence playing that way after being robbed of all our pace at CB, do we play better playing the way we've had to adapt to playing? No

Does playing the way we've had to adapt to playing restrict us in a few ways? Yes absolutely

Therefore is it likely we will continue playing the way we've had to adapt to playing this season when we have Virgil and Matip back and bring in Konate and will continue restricting how we are able to play to accommodate Nat at CB? Not in a million years

Are we more likely to win football matches with 2 commanding CBs at our attacking set pieces and 2 to defend set pieces? Yes

Are we more likely to win football matches when if we are needing a late goal we can play a really high line, and play 2v2 at the back in complete confidence and push both our full backs very high? Yes

Are we more likely to breakdown park the bus sides when we have our line at a height from which Virgil, Matip or Konate can play a balls over the top of a defence camped on their own 18 yard line for one of our forward and can have more players in great counter pressing positions to win second balls? Yes

Are we more likely to win football matches when both our LCB and RCB are capable of playing absolutely top quality longer passes to release either forward or full back? Yes

Nat didn't play in either draw and was sorely missed, but that does not make him a solution at CB that will enable us to get back to playing at our very highest levels next season, what he has done so far and how he has developed has been brilliant, but he just isn't a long term solution to what we need at CB

So are you writing NAT off at 24 ?
No chance of any continued/significant further development, and despite lack of much previous experience and difficult line-ups and match pressures?
If we make it to CL he would be my POTY.

[LEGS]

So what was Jurgen's mistake?
And..
Do/will we always need to keep such a high line?
Horses for courses
Not saying NAT is brilliant but he has not yet had chance to blossom and what chances he has been offered he has not been found lacking in effort and input.
Last Nine games
Win 7
Draw 2
Loss 0
GF 19
GA 6
I think the draws maybe have been without NAT (stand to be corrected!)

Correct Nat didnt play against Leeds/Newcastle.

If he did im sure we'd have won one of them but 23 points out 27 is still very good.

[Kev0909]

what's hilarious players are getting 10x more than him for being injured all the time, or not ever starting at all in general

if not more.

And this lad literally puts his head on the line for us generally think he'd do anything for Klopp

[scientificred]

what's hilarious players are getting 10x more than him for being injured all the time, or not ever starting at all in general

if not more.

And this lad literally puts his head on the line for us generally think he'd do anything for Klopp

And it has been magic to see!
Not the greatest footballer but have not seen a header-of-the-ball like that in a long, long time. Fearless.

[ianlfc]

Nat Baresi...

John Terry was the same.

[Nineteenx]

So are you writing NAT off at 24 ?
No chance of any continued/significant further development, and despite lack of much previous experience and difficult line-ups and match pressures?
If we make it to CL he would be my POTY.

I'm not writing him off, I'm saying keep him, but you must understand, in football at the very highest level, you need every single advantage you can get and Jurgen's job is to build a team that offers him as many 'possibilities' as possible, I think, as great as he has been coming in in our hour of need, Nat's presence in a best 11 moving forward limits our 'possibilities' rather than increases them.

If I have 2 CBs who are both great with the ball that gives me more possibilities

If I have 2 CBs who are comfortable defending one v one against pace, that gives me more possibilities

If I have 2 CBs who can both read the game well and have the speed to step into midfield to dispossess a forward trying to play in the hole that gives me more possibilities

If I have 2 CBs who are brilliant in the air in box boxes that gives me lot more possibilities

If I have 2 CBs with the skill speed and quality to drive the ball forward that gives me more possibilities

They are a hell of a lot of possibilities that Nat doesn't give me and if I'm Jurgen, it is my job to increase the possibilities of my team, while reducing the possibilities of the opposition

[jozza800]

John Terry was the same.

Very similar. Terry was far better on the deck though.

I'm not sure what more he has to do to fully win people over. He's the kind of defender I wish we had under Rafa, someone who would just get their head on the ball. Agger was an excellent footballer but a mediocre defender, Skrtel was a slightly more consistent version of Lovren and Carra as good as he was, was easily bullied by bigger forwards.

My only concern is that he's currently playing out of his skin cos he's got the opportunity to. At 24, he's still young for a CB, but if he's flat out now, then he might not have enough to play at the top level.

I'd honestly love to see what he would be like next to VVD.

[miller0863]

He’s not great on the deck and he turns like an oil tanker but he’s brave as a lion and his ability in the air has been an absolute God send. In fact he is most definitely top level in the air, loses out very rarely. That’s where he differs from a player like Kabak, who you could say is a better all round footballer but doesn’t look to have any particular stand out ability for the top level, he’s just ok at everything

[Insidious]

I'm not sure what more he has to do to fully win people over.

If you're talking about John Terry he could have shagged less wives, not gone full kit wanker and prevented Man United from winning a 3rd European Cup, as a start

On Baresi (I've shared a video of this before, possibly in a thread I had on Baggio) his performance in the final of World Cup '94 was something else, especially as he hadn't played since the first game. Just strolled right into a match of the highest level, against Romario+Bebeto (who could be supplied by Cafu) and put out basically every fire.

[eggy81]

He’s not great on the deck and he turns like an oil tanker but he’s brave as a lion and his ability in the air has been an absolute God send. In fact he is most definitely top level in the air, loses out very rarely. That’s where he differs from a player like Kabak, who you could say is a better all round footballer but doesn’t look to have any particular stand out ability for the top level, he’s just ok at everything

What about that flick with the outside of his foot on the dropping ball the other night. Did he mean it?