Who Hates Klopp? #2

[miller0863]

I don’t think you got my point 19, I picked 5 players who I believe cannot run for 90 minutes.. my selection, so your opening statement is irrelevant as they were not the players I was about and the first three should be able to run for 180 minutes never mind 90.

[eggy81]

It's actually Jones, Elliott, Carvalho, Keita, Oxlade - Klopp at least understands pressing and counter pressing isn't all about running hard yards

How does no-one get this, through no longer having a good press, we are running far more hard yards, long sprints back when our press is continually broken, pressing and counter pressing, when finely tuned, is not an exhaustive exercise, it's like circuit training, rhythmic running, of mostly 5-10 yards, not full on sprints or lengthy sprints, Henderson got injured in 19-20 not because of our pressing and counter pressing, but because his body was used to the rhythmic running of the press and counter press and he was suddenly doing 3 or 4 flat out 30 yard sprints against Atletico because Fab's reintroduction was seeing our press continually broken

You lot really don't get this

If all your players get to expertly positioning themselves off one another, reading the play, playing almost exclusively in one third to half of the pitch, winning almost all second balls so they aren't chasing down players, having to turn and sprint back after players released in behind them, how the FUCK are they, were they running further than in our current state of affairs?

I'm fucking tired of this lame argument, logistically, having watched the games and the positioning of the players the running they were doing, wasn't as exhaustive or intensive as the running most other teams do and all the opponents we so regularly released players in behind had to do so many times every game, the argument it is fatigue, that we would some how be more fatigues than all the opposition sides we made do so much more genuine hard and exhaustive running and sprinting than we have been doing simply just does not stack up

The more plausible explanations are the loss of our press and counter pressing and it deteriorating over time through Jurgen's changes and that not being addressed so were were expending more energy and/or the loss of sports science and key fitness in conditioning staff in the summer meaning the players are struggling for that reason

Fab has never ever had the legs, he has never had the box to box length and bredth of the pitch running ability and athleticism of a DM, the kind Casemiro has sadly displayed in abundance in the filthy's last 2 games, the kind Hendo reularly displayed, never

I get it and actually agree with lots of your points even if sometime not how you get them across. One thing I think you brush over is that other teams have figured out to trap us between a high press and a dilly dally type game where we try play possession because they’ve stopped us running behind and also a high line where if they time their press right we literally shit the fucking bed time and again at the back. We need a couple of hybrid hendo gini type players. Gini is the most under appreciated player we’ve ever had I reckon. Press resistant. Strong. Skilful. Always moving the ball forward. But shit in some lads eyes cos he wasn’t banging in 10 goals and 10 assists a season. Amazing that we thought we could let him go and not replace him

[Nineteenx]

I don’t think you got my point 19, I picked 5 players who I believe cannot run for 90 minutes.. my selection, so your opening statement is irrelevant as they were not the players I was about and the first three should be able to run for 180 minutes never mind 90.

You're missing my point, pressing and counter pressing, one of the fundamentals of our game isn't all about how much players can run, it is about reading of the game and understanding of the game and system and where you need to position yourself in order to cover your player and to also be first to any second ball

Elliott runs all over the place, in the wrong places and causes all our other players to have to run more, Fab doesn't run and has never had the athleticism of a DM, gets wrong side of his man, often doesn't even recognise who his man is in the press, leaves his man to charge into a situation 2 of our players are already in attendance with, leaving that player an easy pass to release HIS man he just fucking left, taking 3 of our players out of the game, something he's always done but most of you here have only just spotted

In the first game he came back in during 19-20 he did it countless times with Dnepro, gave away what should have been a penalty for a foul on Ings and made a system that had been functioning to its highest ever levels in his absence fall completely apart, we won that game 4-1 or something in the end, through the quality of our forward players and Hendo releasing them from RCM and scoring himself, but we so easily could have lost it and we conceded far more chances in it than we did in almost all the game combined in Fab's absence - That's not me being a dick, that is what happened

I like Hendo because he is a proper actual midfielder, leader and No6, we do need to replace him as a first team regular, move Milner on and he needs to become our Milner figure, but he remains the best No6 we have available, by some distance too, despite his legs and engine not being what they were, he still has more of both than Fab, because he plays with far more intelligence than people understand. most commentators seem to understand and appreciate it immensely, just no-one here, our midfield is crying our for players who understand how to press, who can read the game and position themselves and help others like Bajcetic get better at it, as he makes a hell of a lot of mistakes in it too despite being otherwise impressive so far

Jurgen fucked up v Palace in my opinion, in he starts that game with

Bajcetic Henderson Milner we don't have an issue, were at least much better, it helps Bajcetic immensely and helps to start him understanding the press and reading it and positioning himself better, but no, he has to throw Keita who was all over the place v Wolves instead, bring Bajcetic on when hr's replaced Keita with Fab and moved him to No6 and Hendo to RCM which is no fucking help to the team of Bajcetic at all and Fab should have been nowhere fucking near getting on the pitch after THAT absolute shocker of a display v Real, just like his display v Atletico in 2020 last 16 and neither should Keita have been after Wolves

That's why I said he's losing it, what the fuck is he seeing, how the fuck does our fabled analysis team not do see what everyone else is now seeing that i've been seing Fab do since 19-20 and go knocking on his door with a video nasty saying "You might have a problem here"

It's the very height of provincial sloppiness, surely in a cluture of continual hard work, evolution and development, a huge part of the video analysis teams job should be to analyse our own players performance and how they are helping of hindering the system that played right saves legs immensely or alerting the manager if they are hindering it

[miller0863]

Not missing your point at all, you mentioned 3 players I hadn’t and produced a long post talking about a different topic.

[teesred]

It’s the complete lack of forward planning that is our problem. I get why we couldn’t bring in the two (at least) new mids last summer because of the numbers we already had.

This is what got me most from that interview. It's like they've seen the oncoming car crash and are completely fine with it.
We clearly could have brought in one but Klopp chose to hold out for a player who ultimately might go elsewhere. It's batshit.

[Insidious]

The fact we waited a full year to be blessed with naby in this squad is almost beyond parody. Like what the fuck did we see.

Naby was brilliant at Leipzig to be fair. Great availability record, great presser, covered space well and could get it forward.

There was also a bit of talk at the time about our stats department and stats labelled "packing" - I know many will know what packing stats are but just in case anyone doesn't it's a measure of how many opposition players you can take out of the game with a forward run or pass.

So if a player received a ball and plays it through a line of 4 defenders having beaten two men with a dribble prior to releasing the ball, he has taken 6 lads out of the game - which comes up really well in packing.

Keita quite clearly didn't work out, but we were meant to be getting a pressing Monster who could get the ball forward quickly and accurately with high consistency to the forward-line, leaving our forwards through on goal for high-percentage chances of scoring.

It hasn't worked of course, but in terms of what we "saw" that was it so far as I can interpret it.

[Insidious]

It’s the complete lack of forward planning that is our problem. I get why we couldn’t bring in the two (at least) new mids last summer because of the numbers we already had.

Yeah it's been frustrating. Forward-planning does seem to be there with the forwards at least - we now have Jota, Diaz, Núñez and Gakpo who are well below 30 - indeed if Firmino departs then we have only one forward over-30 which bodes well on the age profile front.

Midfield undeniably needs to be next and done properly.

[justincredible]

Some sense; Klopp out!

https://twitter.com/Adel_AlMishry/status/1693569989817602279

[Steveo]

Naturally there are plenty gullible enough to swallow what they are fed. These people don’t read between the lines, they don’t think - they just take what is said and run with it. They just look at what we - have won under Klopp and use it as evidence that the owners are brilliant,

Since the £110 bid many will believe Klopp has been offered the funds. It’s total bunkum off course and the man himself will STILL defend his employers but many are now awake to who these leeches really are.

Klopp has put us WAY above where we would or could have possibly expected to be - with this ownership and funding model

[justincredible]

Yes Steveo, completely right you are. I'm sick saying it, but when Jurgen Klopp leaves next summer, it'll be a case of saying; "If only he'd been backed better by the owners. A true chance missed!"