General Transfer Thread Summer 2023

[Steveo]

Real are an exception - a total anomaly. And they are so because of many things. A little historical context is clearly needed for some, but apart from links to Franco they have won so much more than any other club - - they are also the worlds most glamorous club AND once again for the record - they spent so much more than any other club - and did so for years and years.

The fact that spending eye watering amounts on players actually became a profitable enterprise for Real is clearly lost on some. No other club could do this.

The worlds most valuable club enjoy a totally unique position in the game. Anyone struggling to factor this into their thinking cannot be taken seriously on the subject.

This is basic understanding of the sport, its very dna.

[HLOGI]

Real spent €400 mill since fsg took over till end of 2014/15 season versus €506 mill by LFC

Real since Klopp took over spent €842 mill versus Klopps €933 mill

Teal invested heavily in their squad but the age profile of those players and their quality meant that they could go on gor so long.

Ramos, Marcelo, Bale, Benzema, Ronaldo, Isco, Kroos, Modric, Caseimero. World class players brought in cause the name Madrid trumps all. Whether they spent galacticos money or not.

They keep on doing this since the first galacticos.

They are doing to again now. Vincius, Rodrygo, Bellingham, Camavinga, Tchoumeni, Valverde. They spend quickly to rebuilt. They have a clear way.

[CCTV]

Real are an exception - a total anomaly. And they are so because of many things. A little historical context is clearly needed for some, but apart from links to Franco they have won so much more than any other club - - they are also the worlds most glamorous club AND once again for the record - they spent so much more than any other club - and did so for years and years.

The fact that spending eye watering amounts on players actually became a profitable enterprise for Real is clearly lost on some. No other club could do this.

The worlds most valuable club enjoy a totally unique position in the game. Anyone struggling to factor this into their thinking cannot be taken seriously on the subject.

This is basic understanding of the sport, its very dna.

It's all about figures until they are presented to you in context of what you claim.

So far of Europe's top10 clubs....

Lfc, city, arse, manu, chelsea, psg, bayern, juve, real & barca are 9 anomalies

Our spending is seen as an anomaly. We're in the higher gross spend and lower net spend group, along with Real Madrid.
This is very bad apparently as the biggest club in the land, as we shouldn't even think of comparing ourselves with the very best.
But we should be competing with the very top clubs as the biggest club in the land.
OK...
Both real and lfc have the most wiggle room with ffp in mind. Meaning very little regulatory impact on dealings.

In recent times city fall in to that category high gross and lower net spend. Over the last 5 years not much more net spend than us.

Now high gross spend and high net spend. What we need to do cause we a little old club compared to real....
Manu, Arse, Cfc, Barca, PsG & Juve.
This is what those who moan about LFC spending want. They want to see the club run like manu, arse, cfc, barca, psg & juve. Big net and gross.
Why ?
It's not your money being spent, so why not spend more and more and more.
Big gross and big net spend = badly run club.

LFC have outspend Bayern since 2000 in gross spending since FSG took over.
Klopps at LFC is coming up on surpassing their gross spend since 2000. 933 mill v 1.2 bill

You picked up net spend at 5 years range, then since 2014 and then switched to gross spend since 2000.
Then the figures were no longer important as you failed to address them.

[JockStrap]

Real are an exception - a total anomaly. And they are so because of many things. A little historical context is clearly needed for some, but apart from links to Franco they have won so much more than any other club - - they are also the worlds most glamorous club AND once again for the record - they spent so much more than any other club - and did so for years and years.

The fact that spending eye watering amounts on players actually became a profitable enterprise for Real is clearly lost on some. No other club could do this.

The worlds most valuable club enjoy a totally unique position in the game. Anyone struggling to factor this into their thinking cannot be taken seriously on the subject.

This is basic understanding of the sport, its very dna.

Ye cannae keep a single train o' thought 'n' constantly produce straw man arguments.

That Real Madrid spend a lot o' dosh insae news tae a'body. Th' point bein' made is that LFC hae also spent a load o' dosh. That contradicts yer F$G BAD mantra sae tis nae whit yi'll waant tae hear.

[Steveo]

It's all about figures until they are presented to you in context of what you claim.

So far of Europe's top10 clubs....

Lfc, city, arse, manu, chelsea, psg, bayern, juve, real & barca are 9 anomalies

Our spending is seen as an anomaly. We're in the higher gross spend and lower net spend group, along with Real Madrid.
This is very bad apparently as the biggest club in the land, as we shouldn't even think of comparing ourselves with the very best.
But we should be competing with the very top clubs as the biggest club in the land.
OK...
Both real and lfc have the most wiggle room with ffp in mind. Meaning very little regulatory impact on dealings.

In recent times city fall in to that category high gross and lower net spend. Over the last 5 years not much more net spend than us.

Now high gross spend and high net spend. What we need to do cause we a little old club compared to real....
Manu, Arse, Cfc, Barca, PsG & Juve.
This is what those who moan about LFC spending want. They want to see the club run like manu, arse, cfc, barca, psg & juve. Big net and gross.
Why ?
It's not your money being spent, so why not spend more and more and more.
Big gross and big net spend = badly run club.

LFC have outspend Bayern since 2000 in gross spending since FSG took over.
Klopps at LFC is coming up on surpassing their gross spend since 2000. 933 mill v 1.2 bill

You picked up net spend at 5 years range, then since 2014 and then switched to gross spend since 2000.
Then the figures were no longer important as you failed to address them.

It isn't all about figures. But you don't like the net spend numbers and continue to use ANOMALY Real Madrid as a barometer. It's totally unfair and anyone who knows this sport knows it.

I also haven't switched anything - I have simply put out our net spending within our league (you want to bring in Real because it suits an agenda) for 5 years and then 10 years and you don't like the way it looks. No F$G apologist could like them - they are totally shite.

So you then want to bring in Bayern...forgive me but how have they spent relative to the rest of the Bundesliga? Seriously man WTF are you trying to paint here? They have spent TWICE as much net as ANYONE else in their league over the last 10 years. How many other clubs in our league have outspent Bayern = loads.. Bundesliga is far FAR less competitive. Does any of this need spelling out?


SO - back on the WHY Real are a total anomaly..

Real clearly have spent loads - and crucially they win and win - 14 times and counting… and they fleece those who want to take anyone off them. That’s the privilege.

They spent €1 billion Euro’s on a stadium upgrade.**They spent more than F$G have on 'redeveloping' Anfield on a sodding retractable roof - In Madrid!!

Take a look..

https://syndication.bleacherreport.c...-rich.amp.html

They can attract the best for less and sell those they don't need for more.. this is their game and it theirs alone..

Another advantage that Madrid has over its European competitors are the tax laws in Spain. Spain’s tax laws mean foreign players pay tax at about 23 percent for the first five years that they are in the country. So if Real wants to pay Kaka £8 million after tax, it would cost them about £10 million a year, whereas it would cost Manchester United £16 million (thanks to the new 50 percent top marginal rate in*England


Over five years, that’s a difference of £30 million on just one player. Multiply that**£30 million by three or four players and it is easy to see why Real can afford the salaries they can.
Finally, there’s Real’s status as, effectively, a non-profit social trust. This means they do not need to generate £30 million a year just to service their debt (like United). Most of Madrid’s dent is held with local banks, many of whom are under political and social pressure not to tighten the screws. Real are too big and too important to fail or to come under the kind of debt pressures that affect traditional clubs. The club’s social, political, and economic significance dwarfs that of any other club in the world.
In that sense, they play by a different set of rules.
Add in Real’s history as being one of the most glamorous teams in the world, and it is easy to see why superstars continue to flock to the Bernabeu.

Now - for those who still aren’t following closely

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoza...h=65702bb1572e

We saw the great video on Real’s great €1 billion stadium redevelopment - you will have noticed all the other stadiums they cited (Anfield absent..I wonder why?)


Real have spent order of magnitude more money than us - not even a debate....and for years more than anyone. Literally ANYONE and most importantly of all they have won more than ANYONE. They just spent almost £300 million on a roof. That's what John Henry said needed spending on our Anfield back in 2010. EVEN forgetting inflation - let's park that - F$G have norteven spent £250 million on Anfield. After 13 fooking years!

So get 'real' (intended) - stop trying desperately to change the goal posts. Where is the money..?

[Steveo]

Face it - Some of yous cannot hold a debate on F$G.

If net spend is brought up - and it looks bad compared to the rest of our league - let's move on to Melwood.

IF Melwood gets a roasting and our net spend STILL looks bad compared to the rest of our league - let's talk about Real Madrid.. or Bayern..

Rinse and repeat.. But tell you what. If I dare suggest that Real used to outspend everyone - oh man - I am guilty of switching..

Gotta love this place

[Steveo]

I reckon this is the one that got to them:

But then you look at this.. Since 2014


1. United
Net spend:*€1326.42milion

2. City
Net spend:*€1065.52million

3. Arsenal
Net spend:*€995.72million

4. Chelsea
Net spend:*€992.41million

5. Spurs
Net spend:*€480.91million

6 Liverpool
Net spend:*€451.86million


AND we can see the Klopp effect..


https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/the-premier-league-big-sixs-net-spent-per-trophy-over-the-last-10-years

Pep walked into a club that had spent an absolute fortune...and one which already had the best squad by a margin. Not to say he isn't a top top manager - he absolutely is, but he isn't emulating Klopp if roles were reversed..

[JockStrap]

Ah asked ye a few pages back whit point ye wur trying tae mak'. Ye didnae hae yin then 'n' ye dinnae hae yin noo. Gie it a rest

[CCTV]

Correction
Under fsg weve outspent real by €197 mill gross: 1.439 B v 1.242 B

In the pre fsg era... Real out spend us by €709 mill gross : €317 mill v €1,026 mill

We've outspent real gross since fsg took over.

Are you mad it's only cost fsg a near half bill since 2014 to do that ? 🤔

I guess Bayern with only 1.266 are just another anomaly, and united & chelsea another 2 over the past 5 seasons.

Real Madrid total spend since Jose 2010

Jose 187.5 m
Carlo 301.5 m
Rafa 100.4 m (15/16)
ZZ 70.5 m
Lopetegui 102.75 m
Solari 17 m
ZZ 310.5 m
Carlo 240.5 m

Total: 1.331 B

Since FSG took over they've outspent real Madrid in gross spend since 2010.
And outspent them on net spend since 2014 & 2019.

And that gross spend since 2010 includes €89 mill spent in 2010 summer by Real when FSG didn't own LFC. LFC spent €30.23 that summer (not included under FSG).
FSG have outspent Real by €206 mill since they took over in gross spending terms.

When you take your since 2000 gross spend you badly hamper fsg with yhe previous era.

Not sure why you're moving on to gross spend since 2000s

Real 2.268 B
Manu 2.098
Lfc 1.756 B
Bayern 1.266 B

Lfc spend under Fsg 1.439 B
Klopp 0.933 B
Rodgers 0.4 B
Kenny 0.106 B

Pre-fsg 0.317 B

We have Klopp and he has his players, up against Pep and his players.

Can't believe you retreat to the net-spending after posting those tables of net spend.

Over the last 5 years:

1) Chelsea: £-673.62m

2) Manchester United: £-608.9m

6) Manchester City: £-314.28m

9) Liverpool: £-218.29m


● Real Madrid €-173.85m

Arguably the last 5 years are more prescient


Since 2014

1. United: €-1.326bill

6 Liverpool: €-451.86m

● Real Madrid
Since 14/15 €-193.15m
Since 13/14 €-255.15m

so CC here is Real - despite so much a small net spend since 2014 - WAY above us.

https://onefootball.com/en/news/man-utd-real-madrid-chelsea-psg-worlds-15-biggest-spending-clubs-since-2000-35524847#

This is since 2000 too - go back further and Real will jump up higher and higher in that list. You cannot use their misery net spend to justify it as a method to winning. It ONLY worked for them because they had already spent the most and won the most.

I reckon this is the one that got to them:

So let's assume there's some anti-fsg bias inherit in the gross spend since 2000 figures.

And let sure them with since 2014 that, ah got me

Gross spend since 2000

Manu 2.098 billion v 1.756 billion LFC

342 million more gross since 2000
14.7 mill more per season

That's fergie era- post their treble season through to today.

Net spend since 2014

Manu 1.326bill v Liverpool: 451.86m
Net-spent 874.14 mill more since 2014



Now let's pretend it's cost the net spend since 2014 to but the gross spend since 2000 team.

United have invested at cost 1.326 billion to buy 2.098 worth of players.

Lfc have spent 451.86 million to buy 1.756 worth of players.

I hope you don't think lfc are the greatest club in the land, but can't be compared to united as well as Real

Real are a better run than club than us because they are even more jwh than FSG.

The cost of their spending 2.268 gross since 2000

Since 14/15 €-193.15m
Since 13/14 €-255.15m

Under fsg of course we've outspent them gross by 1.439 B v 1.242
So our extra 197 million gross spending since 2014 has cost us 200-250 mill more net than real Madrid.
Both clubs are running very similarly when you analyse spends gross & net.

[Steveo]

We can pretend what you like CC. Because pretending is what you are doing here.

I posted our weak net spend over 5 years.

Then I posted it over 10 years.
The first was relative to all other clubs in our league and then in comparison with the so called big 6. Both were squarely focussed on our league - the Premier League as this is the league we are in.

You didn’t like it

You brought in Real

Unless I am mistaken Real are not in the the Premier league.

Unless I am mistaken they are a total exception to ANYONE in ANY league ANYWHERE on the planet. And I have even helped you in this understanding by giving you some background reading on the matter.

Real have a long history CC. Unlike some they didn’t start with the birth of Sky Sports. They are NOT the biggest and most successful club on the planet because of prudent spending, They spent and spent and spent more and more and more than anyone for years. They get massive breaks - they still do - they are almost a national emblem and a national treasure.

Suggesting that their 14 European cups and their illustrious history, their world class stadium…which just got €1billion more world class - is down to them being run by the John Henry’est of Henry’s is as ludicrous as it is ridiculous.

Let’s be ‘real’ - you like the numbers when it suits you - and you can “manage” them into a narrative - BUT you can’t argue the case against my assertion that Klopp has performed miracles with the balance of transfers at his disposal. The balance has been decidedly weak for any club starting where we were in 2015 - with that “bang average squad” you remember them, They got spanked by Stoke.

The core point - for those not observing closely IS the 2 timelines. since 2014 - covers Klopp’s entire term here - and the last 5 covers is SINCE winning number 6. The spend is the same. The only outlier is Coutinho’s sale. A point you surely comprehend - as it relates back to what you cite as Real’s brilliant running of the club - with what is in truth their own ability to fleece clubs for players.

The instant Jurgen was able to enjoy a ‘Real Madrid’ like window - look what happened next. Without it - it is extremely doubtful that we win a CL or a title at all..!

Did the owners think - great - so we know what happens when this guy gets some proper wedge? No… they thought - Kerching…..this guy can make miracles. Let him make some more.

..the end…