Match Thread Liverpool V Sunderland.

[jozza800]

Absolutely right. The loss of him is as plain as day, you see how important he was to that team despite his defensive flaws.
It's just one of many problems with the whole squad right now, a squad full of quality that's not being used correctly but also a fair few square pegs there.
The players we've let go despite being just squad players contributed a lot overall and the guys we've replaced them with might be better players but they all lack one thing and that's the tutelage of Klopp.
The instilled work rate, the team ethic that requires a bit more than everywhere else.

There's comparisons to be made here with say GH and Rafa. It was well known that GH was a real people person, had a great relationship personally with the squad. He cared whereas Rafa saw them as cogs in the machine ( the main reason Gerrard felt he needed to leave).
Nothing wrong with either method but when one follows the other in terms of managerial appointments it'll cause issues in the short term but unfortunately for Slot he won't get that long in my opinion due to bad results.

Just matching the opposition would be acceptable at this point!

If we're saying that the only way we can be successful is to have a Jurgen Klopp like manager then we may as well pack up and all go home. There haven't been and aren't many Jurgen Klopps in world football so we're probably going to be struggling to find another one.

[Steveo]

Canst speak for another but I am saying that…and I have been saying that for years!! Inside F$G’s model under Klopp that is.


I would go further I suggest F$G’s final breaking of the bank this summer attests to this reality

[Red October]

And think it’s important to state, and I know it’s touchy for some and all but taa is a humongous loss to this side. An outrageous weakening of the side that was beyond our control but I really am amazed that fans thought it wouldn’t hurt. The man is a one off that no one else could replicate from that position and we thought frimpong could replace that. He can basically run fast.on the odd occasion he’s fit. As for Bradley. Seems to have regressed. But it’s unusual to have a player at rb that so pivotal to your ability to vary and develop stacking play. That was the beauty of him. I think it’s a major issue I. How teams are comfortable pressing us now cos they know they only have to shackle vvd. The rest haven’t a pass between them over 90 mins

Good post. We've missed that creativity. The problem i see is that slot doesn't seem to have a plan. Its all very clueless. Its like he thinks get some good players and stick them on and they'll figure it out.

He doesn't seem to recognise that trent's passing needs to be replaced. He doesn't seem to see that we need dynamism in forward areas to create space. Fast passing. Crossing into the box. To me all of that is more worrying than anything. Because it shows me that he's a bit clueless. We are liverpool. We demand attacking football, not boring dross.

[jozza800]

Canst speak for another but I am saying that…and I have been saying that for years!! Inside F$G’s model under Klopp that is.


I would go further I suggest F$G’s final breaking of the bank this summer attests to this reality

What's the solution? Assuming we can't either a) entice Jurgen back or b) somehow find another Jurgen-like manager? Spend another shit-tonne of cash? If these are the only two options, then neither are particularly sustainable.

With the players we have in the squad, we should be performing much, much better no-matter who the manager is.

[jozza800]

As an attacking player in my younger days, I tend to focus mostly on the attacking side of how we play. Of which is the most concerning aspect of the way we're currently playing.

However, even I noticed how ridiculously we set up without the ball last night. Just Wirtz and Isak 'pressing' and then for some reason Grav being the 3rd man in the press and the rest sat off in our own half.

I'm not a tactical genius by any stretch, but even I thought that was batshit crazy.

It just looks like Arne is setting them up to fail.

The drop off is too much for it to be a few players out of form, or integration of new players.

[Steveo]

What's the solution? Assuming we can't either a) entice Jurgen back or b) somehow find another Jurgen-like manager? Spend another shit-tonne of cash? If these are the only two options, then neither are particularly sustainable.

With the players we have in the squad, we should be performing much, much better no-matter who the manager is.

There is no surefire solution. Imo the only way to make LFC a success under F$G, and without a Jurgen Klopp is to do as Arsenal fans did and apply serious pressure on the owners to commit to a far larger net spend. That low net spend was all that stood between us and 3 titles for Klopp and likely 2 CL trophies too.

AND - if anyone doubts that - watch Jurgen on Diary of a CEO... He was perfectly willing to fight with the handicap but he wanted more support and despite the fact he was super loyal to the club it is obvious from several comments he made while manager and since.

From just a few weeks ago..


Only the 2 stands Jurgen but still


August 30, 2022, during the final days of the summer transfer window.

At the time, Liverpool were facing a midfield injury crisis (with Thiago, Naby Keïta, and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain out), and Klopp was being pressed by journalists on whether the club would sign a reinforcement. He famously alluded to his frustration with the club's (FSG's) cautious financial model, admitting he wished he could take more risks in the market.


The specific quote was:

"Let me say it like this: from time to time I would be ready to risk a bit more, but I don't decide this and that's then fine."

Context & Meaning
The Situation: Liverpool had started the season poorly and were light on midfielders due to injuries. Fans and pundits were clamoring for a signing.

The "Risk": Klopp was suggesting that while the club prefers to only buy the "right" player (perfect fit, right age, right price), he personally would have been willing to "risk a bit more"—meaning potentially overpaying or signing a short-term "stop-gap" solution to help the team immediately.

The Outcome: Two days later, on deadline day (September 1, 2022), Liverpool signed Arthur Melo on loan from Juventus—a move that was widely seen as the "low risk" panic buy Klopp had hinted they might be forced into, though it ultimately didn't work out due to Arthur's own injury issues.


Klopp managed to work within this ludicrous framework of super tight constraints. We are doing what we actually agreed to do to get the club in the first place - rebuild the stadium BUT we are going to pay it ourt of revenue and you are going to have to compete while we do that.

__________________________________________________

in. short and IMO

YOu say should we spend another "shit-tonne of cash?"

Are you falling for that BS? This summer we did yes - but even this summer Arsenal outspent us.. Think about that...We went big in panic because we stiffed the last guy for years and he still managed to get a team WAY WAY stronger than the sum of its parts.. By March of last season it was apparent that they had over achieved in being on course for the title while crashing out of the CL and falling at Wembley so obviously to the Toon FFS. Team was rinsed..

From here - F$G are going to have to mirror Kroenke. He came close to facing open revolt. The Arsenal fans simply refused to fall in line with the usual US ownership model. And they were right. Jurgen Klopp and his miraculous ability to get so much from players - simply masked an identical setup here. But many Liverpool fans are still in a trance.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/15/arsenal-fans-stan-kroenke-investment-vehicle

https://www.facebook.com/ArsenalNews360/posts/we-want-our-arsenal-back-the-season-is-over-for-the-team-but-not-for-the-fans-it/795595897993578/

https://arseblog.news/2019/07/arsenal-fans-unite-to-express-concern-over-kse/

[Red October]

In an ideal world we would have added isak and wirtz et al while keeping hold of diaz, Jota (had he been here) and trent. That's the way liverpool and top sides always have done it. That way you don't get the drop off in quality that we've seen maybe.

[CCTV]

There is no surefire solution. Imo the only way to make LFC a success under F$G, and without a Jurgen Klopp is to do as Arsenal fans did and apply serious pressure on the owners to commit to a far larger net spend. That low net spend was all that stood between us and 3 titles for Klopp and likely 2 CL trophies too.

AND - if anyone doubts that - watch Jurgen on Diary of a CEO... He was perfectly willing to fight with the handicap but he wanted more support and despite the fact he was super loyal to the club it is obvious from several comments he made while manager and since.

From just a few weeks ago..


Only the 2 stands Jurgen but still


August 30, 2022, during the final days of the summer transfer window.

At the time, Liverpool were facing a midfield injury crisis (with Thiago, Naby Keïta, and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain out), and Klopp was being pressed by journalists on whether the club would sign a reinforcement. He famously alluded to his frustration with the club's (FSG's) cautious financial model, admitting he wished he could take more risks in the market.


The specific quote was:

"Let me say it like this: from time to time I would be ready to risk a bit more, but I don't decide this and that's then fine."

Context & Meaning
The Situation: Liverpool had started the season poorly and were light on midfielders due to injuries. Fans and pundits were clamoring for a signing.

The "Risk": Klopp was suggesting that while the club prefers to only buy the "right" player (perfect fit, right age, right price), he personally would have been willing to "risk a bit more"—meaning potentially overpaying or signing a short-term "stop-gap" solution to help the team immediately.

The Outcome: Two days later, on deadline day (September 1, 2022), Liverpool signed Arthur Melo on loan from Juventus—a move that was widely seen as the "low risk" panic buy Klopp had hinted they might be forced into, though it ultimately didn't work out due to Arthur's own injury issues.


Klopp managed to work within this ludicrous framework of super tight constraints. We are doing what we actually agreed to do to get the club in the first place - rebuild the stadium BUT we are going to pay it ourt of revenue and you are going to have to compete while we do that.

__________________________________________________

in. short and IMO

YOu say should we spend another "shit-tonne of cash?"

Are you falling for that BS? This summer we did yes - but even this summer Arsenal outspent us.. Think about that...We went big in panic because we stiffed the last guy for years and he still managed to get a team WAY WAY stronger than the sum of its parts.. By March of last season it was apparent that they had over achieved in being on course for the title while crashing out of the CL and falling at Wembley so obviously to the Toon FFS. Team was rinsed..

From here - F$G are going to have to mirror Kroenke. He came close to facing open revolt. The Arsenal fans simply refused to fall in line with the usual US ownership model. And they were right. Jurgen Klopp and his miraculous ability to get so much from players - simply masked an identical setup here. But many Liverpool fans are still in a trance.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/15/arsenal-fans-stan-kroenke-investment-vehicle

https://www.facebook.com/ArsenalNews360/posts/we-want-our-arsenal-back-the-season-is-over-for-the-team-but-not-for-the-fans-it/795595897993578/

https://arseblog.news/2019/07/arsenal-fans-unite-to-express-concern-over-kse/

You're worse than the bbc/sly/sun

Glad you've found a new yank love ❤️

That'll be big spending Glazers, Kroenke & Toddy breaking the US model.

[Kev0909]

Jesus he's at it again, has he got what 19x has got? some obsessive disorder?

It's ok mate, I know life is tough right now

we're here for you, unlike arne slot.

[Red October]

Jesus he's at it again, has he got what 19x has got? some obsessive disorder?

It's ok mate, I know life is tough right now

we're here for you, unlike arne slot.

I think he's hearing a voice like "false one that Steveo a tricksy one". ;-)