Transfer spening and footy finances

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So in the spirit of forum cohesion I'll start a new thread for objective & any discussion on net spending etc etc

Heres a link to the original thread.It's a belter of analysis of transfer market activity, and better than just about most media articles in terms of analysis.

https://forums.lfconline.co.uk/showthread.php?310133-Top6-spends-analysed-by-MV-13-14-onwards

The top 6 spending was analysed from 13/14 season onwards.

Gross spend - money forked out for players.
Sales income - money taken for players sold.
Net spend/profit the net difference between the 2.

MV of players who've left, loan deals, transfer fees and free contract departures, is compared with sales figures.

MV of players who've arrived, loan deals, transfer fees and free contract arrivals, is compared with gross spending.

Then the net market value shift was compared with the net spending of clubs. This generated a nice little metric of how many cents the squads value adjusted net for the net spending per euro.

The above thread examined the value of transfers by an objective and open source data base of player valuations. Widely referenced.

You could go and exclude loan players, but I think those are important to count. You could go and exclude players like Giorgi/Keita who arrived, went out on loan, and returned to LFC, as like loans these 3 debits/credits inflate the market value shift figures as a total. These seem more sensible than the loans for exclusions. They haven't been excluded yet by myself.

Heres an example of the analysis applied previously to gauge the effectiveness of net spending per euro.

CCTV*said:30th September 2024*12:55 PM

LFC

20/21 -67.6m (mv gain +94.65)
Spent 84.8 value 182.5
Sold 17.2 value 87.85

21/22 -59.35 (mv gain +22)
Spent 91 value 155
Sold 31.65 value 133

22/23 -65.1 (mv gain 34.7)
Spent 145.8 value 165
Sold 80.7 value 130.3

23/24 -111.8 (mv gain 29.8)
Spent 172 value 191.5
Sold 60.7 value 161.7

Total 303.85 net.
Gross spend 493.6
Gross sales 190.25
Market value shift +181.15

https://www.transfermarkt.com/liverpool-fc/transfers/verein/31/plus/?saison_id=2023&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=


Arsenal

20/21 -66.85 (MV gain +43.55)
Spent 86 value 229.3
Sold 19.15 value 185.75

21/22 -136 (Mv loss -59.3)
Spent 167.4 value 185.85
Sold 31.4 value 245.15

22/23 -162.6 (Mv +171.8)
Spent 186.4 value 370
Sold 23.8 value 198.2

23/24 -165.9 (mv gain +131.6)
Spent 235.1 value 319.9
Sold 69.2 value 188.3

Total 531.35 net.
Gross spend 674.9
Gross sales 143.55
Market value shift +287.65

https://www.transfermarkt.com/arsenal-fc/transfers/verein/11/plus/?saison_id=2020&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=


Arsenal Spent a further 227.5 mill net,
181.3 gross.
And had a greater market value shift +106.5 mill

Per €uro Net-Spent
Arsenal gained 54 cent in market value.
LFC gained 59 cent in market value.


Emery's Villa

22/23 -46.14 (Mv +78.7)
Spent 100.14 value 242.7
Sold 54 value 164

23/24 -78.95 (mv gain 110.75)
Spent 111.5 value 179.45
Sold 32.55 value 68.7

Total 125.09 net.
Gross spend 211.64
Gross sales 86.55
Market value shift +189.45

Per €uro Net-Spent
Villa gained 151 cent.

Klopp clearly hindered by a few notable free transfer departures Gini, Bobby,

I'd emery's Villa have been better run than both lfc & arsenal over these past few years.

https://forums.lfconline.co.uk/showthread.php?310133-Top6-spends-analysed-by-MV-13-14-onwards/page4


Arsenal gained 54 cent in market value per euro spent.
LFC gained 59 cent in market value per euro spent.
Villa gained 151 cent in market value per euro spent.

Of course the actual net spending is important too, but this analysis really gets to show how effective the spending is in reality.
For every euro spent net, Emery nearly trippled his returns compared with Klopp & Arteta 20/21 to 23/24.

With Villa/Emery over those 2 years, my analysis suggests Villa have been doing great. Better than both Arsenal & LFC.
Not bad from Emerys Villa over their shared eras. A well run club one might say..

Arsenal had spent a further €406.26 mill to improve their squad by €98.2 million more than Villa.
LFC had spent a further €178.76 mill to improve their squad by €8.3 million less than Villa.

Granted that was 4 years for Arteta & Klopp, and only 2 for Emery, but that's largely irrelevant on a mv gain per euro net spent metric.

I'll compare Klopp early days pre Arteta v Klopp & Arteta shared era already detailed above. Slot & BR too, to cover most recent LFC managers. Let's see what it says. Lets test it a little further.

If I'm back on the forum soon, Ill archive the Original thread

[CCTV]

LFC

Klopp early years 16/17 to 19/20

16/17
Net profit +9.08 (mv gain +21.5m)
Spent 79.9m value 141.25
Sold 89.98 value 119.75

17/18
Net profit +10.85 (mv gain -43.7m)
Spent 173.65 value 125.65
Sold 184.5 value 169.35

18/19
Net loss -150.88 (mv gain+133.4 )
Spent 192.2 value 244.3
Sold 41.32 value 110.9

19/20
Net profit +37.6 (mv gain -29.6)
Spent 10.4value 67.35
Sold 48 value 96.95

Total 93.35 net.
Gross spend 456.15
Gross sales 363.8
Market value shift +81.6

Per euro spent Klopp (16-17 to 19/20) added 87.4 cent in net gain to the squads valuation.

LFC Slot

24/25
Net profit +5 (mv gain +7.1m)
Spent 42m value 132.5
Sold 47 value 125.4

25/26
Net loss -263.4 (mv gain +206.9m)
Spent 482.9m value 513.4
Sold 219.5 value 306.5

Total 258.4 net.
Gross spend 524.9
Gross sales 266.5
Market value shift +214

Per euro spent Slot (24/25 to 25/26) added 82.8 cent in net gain to the squads valuation.

LFC BR

12/13
Net loss -60.15 (mv gain +18.4m)
Spent 70.6m value 91.7
Sold 10.45 value 73.3

13/14 -25.6
Net loss -25.6 (mv gain -6.4m)
Spent 58.1m value 75.8
Sold 32.5 value 82.2

14/15
Net loss -52.16 (mv gain +5.5m)
Spent 151.43m value 127.65
Sold 99.27 value 122.15

Summer 15
Net loss -35.95 (mv gain -13.4m)
Spent 126.5m value 109.2
Sold 90.55 value 122.6

Total 173.86 net.
Gross spend 406.63
Gross sales 232.77
Market value shift +4.1

Per euro spent BR (12/13 to Summer transfer window 15/16) added 2.4 cent in net gain to the squads valuation.



So let's recap, using a logical, extra level of analysis.

Manager - Period - Net Spend & Market value gained per euro spent.

Emery Villa 22/23 to 23/34
€125.09 mill net & 151 cent gained per euro.

Klopp 16/17 to 19/20
€93.35 mill net & 87.4 cent gained per euro.

Slot 24/25 to 25/26
€258.4 mill net & 82.8 cent gained per euro.

Klopp 20/21 to 23/24
€303.85 mill net & 59 cent gained per euro.

Areta 20/21 to 23/24
€531.35 mill net & 54 cent gained per euro.

Rodgers 12/13 to Post-Summer of 15/16
€173.86 mill net & 2.4 cent gained per euro.

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At the extremes we have

Rodgers LFC which spent €173.86 million net to increase the squads valuation by €4.1 million via player trading.
A disaster.

Emery spent €125.09 mill net to increase their squads valuation by €189.45 million

With respect to Klopp we can see how more efficient his earlier days were at LFC, and how much more wasteful he was in those last 4 seasons.

Interestingly Slots score is close to the early days of Klopp, and away from latter day Klopp & Artetas.

[CCTV]

1

Anti F$G is not anti LFC - and I’ve been spending my hard earned cash and giving time to supporting Liverpool Football Club and not just at Anfield either - for decades.

You cite my constant to and from with CCTV on net spend..:: So tell us why would anyone who was ‘Anti LFC’ be constantly demanding more backing for the LFC manager. ..? What could the reason be..?

You see - jokestrap - your fake conclusions make no sense. They paint you as the shill that most now know you to be. Your comment on glory hunters is as feeble as Prince Andrew’s defence. When challenged on the sentiments of Bill Shankly - you defect.

You’re well exposed and pretty hopeless - you claimed I wouldn’t go to the game yet you know that I did . …. someone’s actually do… …

We STILL have no clue whence you hail or reside… and crucially Why you really joined the forum

What do you have to hide. 🤔

2

Because big net spending is not really Klopps football philosophy. As shown, net spending decreased on Klopps arrival compared with BR.

Our relative net spend in the PL

3rd highest under BR
9th under Klopp
5th under Slot

Thats Klopps impact on the club. Thats his philosophy.
You've tried to paint this as Klopp being hoodwinked by FSG

The great man who left Dortmund where he net spent FUCK All, had his choice of clubs, and was hoodwinked by a big spend promise by JWH.

I've posted your Arteta overtaking Klopp post & Slots more complete form of football post from August & September 2024 !!
Klopps barely left the fucking club at this point.

This is the 1st year where, if cituae win the league and Arsenal lose it, I will be happy. And that's largely down to you shit talking Klopp.

More generally, you probably want more wasted on transfers & wages,
so you can moan about ticket prices going up

3

CCTV's still reading from the same tired script, I see... the FSG defence league is out in full force.

To suggest that a 9th place net spend was Klopp’s "philosophy" is close to being the most desperate bit of bollox I’ve seen on this forum yet. Klopp didn’t 'choose' to have his hands tied - he was a miracle worker who dragged a mid-table budget to the top of the mountain despite the lack of backing... not because of it. He even describes in Diary of a CEO how he "NEVER KNEW" there was this kind money...? What you think he means?

You think the man who saw his rivals spend £100m on single players "preferred" to go into seasons with a threadbare midfield? Give it a rest. There’s a massive difference between "philosophy" and "making do with what you're given" - something a shill would never admit.

And that tired old threat about ticket prices... typical scare tactics. LFC is a global money-making machine bringing in record revenues... the idea that we can’t buy a top-class number 6 without fooking over the match-going fan is a lie designed to keep people like you defending billionaire hedge funds.

You claim I "shit-talked" Klopp... Because I dared to point out where the club was being overtaken? WTF are you on about man? I said Arteta overtook him x2 to finish above him.. this is FACT not opinion. It is no slight on Klopp either and was a direct result of the disparity in net spend. That’s called objective reality... something you clearly have a phobia of. Mr I never go to games..

Deflection, fake stats, and personal attacks whenever the owners are questioned. It’s transparent... it’s hopeless... and it’s exactly why people are seeing through the act.

Why are you so terrified of the club actually being ambitious...? What is it you’re really protecting?

4

Thats a Klopp defense from me 👏

that was you position

As shown, net spending decreased on Klopps arrival compared with BR.

Our relative net spend in the PL

3rd highest under BR
9th under Klopp
5th under Slot

Thats Klopps impact on the club. Thats his philosophy.

5

Net spending decreased under Klopp because for FSG... winning the big prizes is NOT the goal. It’s just a lucky byproduct of the miracles Jurgen worked on a shoestring.. This was MY claim for years.. in case you forgot..?

The fact we spent so poorly while at the top of the mountain just proves my theory on F$G’s "stewardship".. The better Klopp did... the less he got. It’s a tax on success.. and you’re here trying to call it a "philosophy"? .. it's nonsense.

No surprise that with the Admin - handicapped after being outed... you’ve stepped into the fray to jump on my answer to him.. It’s a tag-team act that ple clocked by now.

We’re finally getting a clear view of the tactics on this forum.. the reason for your presence and your never-ending rebuttal of ANYTHING detrimental involving Uncle John...

It’s transparent...hopeless.. and it’s why real fans can see through the script.

What’s the real reason you’re so desperate to cover for them? .. What are you really protecting? ��.

6

Well you can look at figures and see Klopps latter days at LFC were by far his bigger spending days.

Klopps later years 2020/21 to 23/24

Total 303.85 net.
Gross spend 493.6
Gross sales 190.25
Market value shift +181.15

Klopp early years 16/17 to 19/20

Total 93.35 net.
Gross spend 456.15
Gross sales 363.8
Market value shift +81.6

Klopp at Dortmund 08/09 to 14/15

Total 63.41 net.
Gross spend 184.68
Gross sales 121.27
Market value shift *cant be arsed doing it now

7 full seasons at Dortmund.

Over Klopps Dortmund tenure

They ranked 31st in Europe on gross spend, LFC were 5th.
They ranked 31st in Europe on net spend, LFC were 9th.
Now that's obviously inclusive of pre-FSG times going back from 08/09 to 14/15. But this is about Klopp.

Klopp had success at Dortmund. He had his choice of clubs, and he chose LFC. What a time. Polling at that time was 70% for Klopp & 30% for Carlo. N4C didnt believe we could entice Klopp, a doubter, but not in Klopp himself. Just the ability to land him.

Klopp arrived and turned a net profit in his 1st full season. Small. But thats Klopp.

LFC BR 12/13 to 15/16.

Total 173.86 net.
Gross spend 406.63
Gross sales 232.77
Market value shift +4.1

In Klopps 1st 4 years he spent about half (53.7%) of what Rodgers did net in the previous 4 seasons.

And look at those market value shifts....

Br +4.1 & Klopp +81.6

Spent half as much & improved the squad way more.

If you want to see the pure impact of Klopp look at his first 4 years. BOOM

Alisson
Trent Matip VVD Robbo
Hendo Fab Gini
Salah Firmino Mane

And in those 1st 4 years where that side was put together.
Klopps LFC was 15th for net spending in the PL.

This isn't a coincidence.

BR's LFC was 3rd
(a disaster by my analysis by the figures)

Slot's LFC 5th after our 1 big summer.

As said, you must think Klopps been really hoodwinked....

Or simply accept that effect, is Klopp arriving at LFC.

He took a 3rd in net spending LFC, and turned it into a 15th placed net spending LFC in his first 4 years.

Could all be had in 1 thread

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Substance